Topic Sponsor
2021+ Ford F150 Discussion of the 14th generation F150.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Real Truck

Three wheel drive?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 02:56 PM
  #11  
markwang's Avatar
Senior Member
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 998
Likes: 545
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by BadHabit
You have that backwards.
The torque would go to the wheel with the least traction,
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 03:37 PM
  #12  
FX4Dennis's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 608
Likes: 314
Default

Originally Posted by BadHabit
You have that backwards.
Nope. Think it through.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 04:44 PM
  #13  
overpropped's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 313
Likes: 87
From: Orlando
Default

A Raptor is a true 4wd if you have the Torsen front dif.
It’s optional on the base model if you get the 801 or whatever it is included.

Lock the rear with a torsen front and all 4 spin.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 05:25 PM
  #14  
BadHabit's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 680
Likes: 446
From: Missouri
Default

Originally Posted by markwang
The torque would go to the wheel with the least traction,
That is the definition of an open differential. It only sends torque to one wheel.

Originally Posted by FX4Dennis
Nope. Think it through.
Ok, let's think it through. A locking differential does exactly that, it locks both sides of the axle together. So if torque is applied to
the differential it drives both sides equally.

An open differential only sends torque to the wheel with least resistance. Open diffs front and back are never four wheel drive.

Now if you're referring to this e-locking differential that's another story. All it is is clever marketing, it's nothing more than an open diff with enhanced traction control.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 05:55 PM
  #15  
FX4Dennis's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 608
Likes: 314
Default

Originally Posted by BadHabit
That is the definition of an open differential. It only sends torque to one wheel.


Ok, let's think it through. A locking differential does exactly that, it locks both sides of the axle together. So if torque is applied to
the differential it drives both sides equally.

An open differential only sends torque to the wheel with least resistance. Open diffs front and back are never four wheel drive.

Now if you're referring to this e-locking differential that's another story. All it is is clever marketing, it's nothing more than an open diff with enhanced traction control.
Nope. An open differential sends equal torque to both wheels. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on dry pavement, they will get equal torque, which is limited by the wheel on ice ... but they are getting the same torque. If both tires have adequate traction for the total torque available, the spider gears don't rotate on their axes, they just orbit around the axis of the axle shafts.

A locking differential sends torque to each wheel according to the traction available at that tire/road interface. The tire on ice gets very little torque and the one on dry pavement gets almost all the torque provided, assuming it doesn't get too much and slip.

In the end, the open differentials really are driving all four wheels equally, even though you may not like the results.

FYI an e-locking differential like in the F150 actually locks the differential directly so both axles turn together as if there were no differential. You can feel it if you turn it on and drive on dry pavement as the inside axle will usually wind up, then relieve itself when the tire spins, and then wind up again, etc. There are traction control systems on open diffs that use brakes to apply resistance to the wheel that is spinning, increasing the torque used by that wheel, so that the other wheel will also use more torque.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 06:10 PM
  #16  
BadHabit's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 680
Likes: 446
From: Missouri
Default

Originally Posted by FX4Dennis
Nope. An open differential sends equal torque to both wheels. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on dry pavement, they will get equal torque, which is limited by the wheel on ice ... but they are getting the same torque. If both tires have adequate traction for the total torque available, the spider gears don't rotate on their axes, they just orbit around the axis of the axle shafts.

A locking differential sends torque to each wheel according to the traction available at that tire/road interface. The tire on ice gets very little torque and the one on dry pavement gets almost all the torque provided, assuming it doesn't get too much and slip.

In the end, the open differentials really are driving all four wheels equally, even though you may not like the results.

FYI an e-locking differential like in the F150 actually locks the differential directly so both axles turn together as if there were no differential. You can feel it if you turn it on and drive on dry pavement as the inside axle will usually wind up, then relieve itself when the tire spins, and then wind up again, etc. There are traction control systems on open diffs that use brakes to apply resistance to the wheel that is spinning, increasing the torque used by that wheel, so that the other wheel will also use more torque.
Boy, don't even know what to say to all that.

I forgot that the hot setup for rock crawlers and mud trucks is to use open diffs.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 08:03 PM
  #17  
isthatahemi's Avatar
Senior Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,041
Likes: 1,117
Post

Originally Posted by BadHabit
Boy, don't even know what to say to all that.

I forgot that the hot setup for rock crawlers and mud trucks is to use open diffs.
Some people can't see the forest for the trees....equal torque to each wheel is meaningless, as you pointed out, equal rotation or close to is the goal. The highest level of suck is open diffs. And the locking center (transfer case), makes that whole rant by the other guy incorrect anyhow. Which is kinda funny as he's trying to be the smart guy.

And of the record, the E-lsd functionality seems to have reappeared on the 21's and 22's, for reasons unknown, it disappeared from 2015-2020. Works well, and has few ill effects.

Last edited by isthatahemi; Mar 11, 2023 at 08:05 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 10:10 PM
  #18  
FX4Dennis's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 608
Likes: 314
Default

Originally Posted by BadHabit
Boy, don't even know what to say to all that.

I forgot that the hot setup for rock crawlers and mud trucks is to use open diffs.
What I said is accurate. I'm sorry you didn't understand it. Clearly rock crawlers and mud trucks would want to have the ability to apply unequal torque to the wheels.

Originally Posted by isthatahemi
Some people can't see the forest for the trees....equal torque to each wheel is meaningless, as you pointed out, equal rotation or close to is the goal. The highest level of suck is open diffs. And the locking center (transfer case), makes that whole rant by the other guy incorrect anyhow. Which is kinda funny as he's trying to be the smart guy.

And of the record, the E-lsd functionality seems to have reappeared on the 21's and 22's, for reasons unknown, it disappeared from 2015-2020. Works well, and has few ill effects.
The whole thread is pointless, just a way to kill time on a winter's evening. If you don't like trees, don't go into the forest.
A locking transfer case does nothing to how a front or rear differential functions. It does affect the torque delivered to each differential. What I said is still correct. And for the record it wasn't a rant.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 10:30 PM
  #19  
markwang's Avatar
Senior Member
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 998
Likes: 545
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by FX4Dennis
Nope. An open differential sends equal torque to both wheels. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on dry pavement, they will get equal torque, which is limited by the wheel on ice ... but they are getting the same torque. If both tires have adequate traction for the total torque available, the spider gears don't rotate on their axes, they just orbit around the axis of the axle shafts.

A locking differential sends torque to each wheel according to the traction available at that tire/road interface. The tire on ice gets very little torque and the one on dry pavement gets almost all the torque provided, assuming it doesn't get too much and slip.

In the end, the open differentials really are driving all four wheels equally, even though you may not like the results.

FYI an e-locking differential like in the F150 actually locks the differential directly so both axles turn together as if there were no differential. You can feel it if you turn it on and drive on dry pavement as the inside axle will usually wind up, then relieve itself when the tire spins, and then wind up again, etc. There are traction control systems on open diffs that use brakes to apply resistance to the wheel that is spinning, increasing the torque used by that wheel, so that the other wheel will also use more torque.
I actually understand what you said now. lol, yes, an open diff sends equal torque to both wheels because basically, action force gotta equal to reaction force, physics 101. where as a torsen basically is a mechanism to lock up spider gears when one wheel starts to spin, and yes it doesn't sends equal torque to both side, because once it locks up, there is no more differential per say. and if a locking diff in action is indeed sending same torque to both wheels, the wheel on ice would spin faster as it has less friction. the fact it didn't spin faster and is spining just as fast as the other wheel on pavement means it receives less torque.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2023 | 10:40 PM
  #20  
markwang's Avatar
Senior Member
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 998
Likes: 545
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by isthatahemi
.equal torque to each wheel is meaningless, as you pointed out, equal rotation or close to is the goal.
well said.
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:15 AM.