Explaining LiveWire data monitoring options
03-15-2019, 04:49 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Explaining LiveWire data monitoring options
Can someone help explain some of these to me? I just bought my LiveWire TS and am setting everything up. I'm trying to set up the data monitoring screen for things while I'm driving. I read through the user guid but it's less descriptive than the tuner itself. I don't understand what most of these mean:
Lambse bank 1,2
Long term fuel trim bank 1,2
Measured AFR bank 1,2
Short term fuel trim bank 1,2
ECT angle actual
Measured Lambda bank 1,2
Load value as fraction
I used to have a edge/gryphon programmer in my 04 and everything was simply labeled. It also offered many more choices on things to monitor, such as transmission Temps, cylinder head temp, average fuel economy, and instant economy. Can I get some of these options somehow on the LiveWire? This thing definitely has a learning curve. Any help will be appreciated.
Lambse bank 1,2
Long term fuel trim bank 1,2
Measured AFR bank 1,2
Short term fuel trim bank 1,2
ECT angle actual
Measured Lambda bank 1,2
Load value as fraction
I used to have a edge/gryphon programmer in my 04 and everything was simply labeled. It also offered many more choices on things to monitor, such as transmission Temps, cylinder head temp, average fuel economy, and instant economy. Can I get some of these options somehow on the LiveWire? This thing definitely has a learning curve. Any help will be appreciated.
03-15-2019, 07:07 PM
#2
AFR and Lambse/lambda display the same thing in essence. lambda of 1 = stoichiometry, and < 1 is rich and > 1 is lean.
Measured AFR can vary depending on fuel type, but lambda will always be 1. But to answer your question, MAFR and lambda both display air fuel ratio, but are just giving you he information in a different way. Also, some of the values are measured values and some are commanded values. In this case, lambse is likely the commander afr as ordered by the ecu, while the other two are the actual measured values just displayed in different ways.
Short term fuel trims display the vehicles immediate fuel needs, as the ecu battles rich or lean conditions based on readings from o2 sensors. Positive values indicate the ecu is adding fuel, negative values indicate the ecu is reducing fuel.
This value can be used by tuners to determine when fuel upgrades are necessary among many other things. This will vary positive to negative as you drive. This updates several times a second. This relates above to the measured afr values vs commanded values.
Say the computer commands a lambda of .75 at max load, but it measures a lambda of .8 (leaner then commanded), then the short term fuel trim will go positive as more fuel is added to achieve the desired air fuel ratio.
long term fuel trims are based on the short term fuel trims, just averaged over a longer period of time. The ecu uses these values to make corrections to the base fueling tables....think of it like zeroing out a scale. This is how the ecu adapts to changes in fuel type (flex fuel), altitude, aging of parts, etc.
Etc angle actual is the final computer calculated throttle plate angle after all factors are considered such as gas peddle position, load, fueling, etc. In a drive by wire car, when you stomp the gas peddle it is the computer that determines how far the throttle plate moves, and ETC (electronic throttle control) angle actual is the final “actual” angle of the throttle plate once all factors are taken into account.
load value is estimated engine load and is just one of the factors the ecu looks at to determine various things, such as etc angle, gear selection, torque converter lockup, etc. load value is calculated by looking at numerous sensor inputs.
Measured AFR can vary depending on fuel type, but lambda will always be 1. But to answer your question, MAFR and lambda both display air fuel ratio, but are just giving you he information in a different way. Also, some of the values are measured values and some are commanded values. In this case, lambse is likely the commander afr as ordered by the ecu, while the other two are the actual measured values just displayed in different ways.
Short term fuel trims display the vehicles immediate fuel needs, as the ecu battles rich or lean conditions based on readings from o2 sensors. Positive values indicate the ecu is adding fuel, negative values indicate the ecu is reducing fuel.
This value can be used by tuners to determine when fuel upgrades are necessary among many other things. This will vary positive to negative as you drive. This updates several times a second. This relates above to the measured afr values vs commanded values.
Say the computer commands a lambda of .75 at max load, but it measures a lambda of .8 (leaner then commanded), then the short term fuel trim will go positive as more fuel is added to achieve the desired air fuel ratio.
long term fuel trims are based on the short term fuel trims, just averaged over a longer period of time. The ecu uses these values to make corrections to the base fueling tables....think of it like zeroing out a scale. This is how the ecu adapts to changes in fuel type (flex fuel), altitude, aging of parts, etc.
Etc angle actual is the final computer calculated throttle plate angle after all factors are considered such as gas peddle position, load, fueling, etc. In a drive by wire car, when you stomp the gas peddle it is the computer that determines how far the throttle plate moves, and ETC (electronic throttle control) angle actual is the final “actual” angle of the throttle plate once all factors are taken into account.
load value is estimated engine load and is just one of the factors the ecu looks at to determine various things, such as etc angle, gear selection, torque converter lockup, etc. load value is calculated by looking at numerous sensor inputs.
03-15-2019, 07:18 PM
#3
As for data logging and configuration files with an SCT device, you are going to need a couple things.
#1. a laptop running the latest version of LiveLink 2 (on SCT's website)
#2. Your trucks ecu strategy code (can be accessed with Livewire device under vehicle information)
With those two things you can create a custom configuration file to monitor everything and anything you could want through the pre-compiled list of PID's in LiveLink. Simply daisy chain your livewire device with the laptop while the livewire is plugged into your truck. Then you can datalog with the laptop and load custom or predefined PID's into a configuration file which you can then name and save. Then using the SCT device updater you can load this file onto the Livewire, and in gauge mode you can open the custom dataset. There are youtube videos out there explaining this, but once you start playing around with LiveLink it'll make more sense....and LiveLink will actually guide you through the process.
Remember, for an accurate list it'll all need to be plugged into a running vehicle.
#1. a laptop running the latest version of LiveLink 2 (on SCT's website)
#2. Your trucks ecu strategy code (can be accessed with Livewire device under vehicle information)
With those two things you can create a custom configuration file to monitor everything and anything you could want through the pre-compiled list of PID's in LiveLink. Simply daisy chain your livewire device with the laptop while the livewire is plugged into your truck. Then you can datalog with the laptop and load custom or predefined PID's into a configuration file which you can then name and save. Then using the SCT device updater you can load this file onto the Livewire, and in gauge mode you can open the custom dataset. There are youtube videos out there explaining this, but once you start playing around with LiveLink it'll make more sense....and LiveLink will actually guide you through the process.
Remember, for an accurate list it'll all need to be plugged into a running vehicle.
03-15-2019, 08:11 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Dang! Thank you for some great info! It's a lot of info, and I still don't understand a lot of it but I'm willing to learn! I'm sure for the diehard tuners all of this data is necessary. For me, Joe schmo who just wants a little more power and to better informed, I probably won't use those monitors. I am more interested in creating my own like you explained. I think I will go download the program and see what I can figure out. I may be coming back with more questions. I'd love to add those monitors that I used to have, they were very useful to me.
Last edited by dont slow down; 03-20-2019 at 09:24 PM.
03-20-2019, 09:17 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
So I have downloaded livelink and looked around a bit, still confused. Read through the help file and it doesn't really explain much. I searched for some videos but didn't really find what I was looking for. Most videos just showed someone clicking around in livelink and not explaining what they were doing. BadCon you mentioned hooking my laptop and livewire up to my truck together, what do I use to connect the laptop? Can I use my ELM adapter? I suppose in livelink it asks what you want to do, and I'm guessing I want to create a datalog configuration file? And I need to do all of this with everything connected with the vehicle running, is that correct? I wish there was a little bit more basic how to video on the basics here.
03-21-2019, 12:38 AM
#6
So this is a good set of instructions: Config instructions
This is slightly different from what you are going to do, but gives you a general idea. What you need to do is plug your Livewire device into your truck, then using the USB cable, plug the livewire device into your laptop. Start the truck and using the live link prompts, select create a configuration file. Because your livewire is plugged into the laptop and your truck, it should display a list of all the available PID's for your truck and strategy code. Just select the ones you want to put into the config file, then refer to the Bama instructions on how to save that as a file that's compatible with your device.
It seems complicated, but it really isn't all that hard once you get the general idea how Live Link works.
Video instructions of using Live Link when connected to the truck and device
Another
This is slightly different from what you are going to do, but gives you a general idea. What you need to do is plug your Livewire device into your truck, then using the USB cable, plug the livewire device into your laptop. Start the truck and using the live link prompts, select create a configuration file. Because your livewire is plugged into the laptop and your truck, it should display a list of all the available PID's for your truck and strategy code. Just select the ones you want to put into the config file, then refer to the Bama instructions on how to save that as a file that's compatible with your device.
It seems complicated, but it really isn't all that hard once you get the general idea how Live Link works.
Video instructions of using Live Link when connected to the truck and device
Another
Last edited by BadCon; 03-21-2019 at 12:42 AM.
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03-21-2019, 08:47 AM
#8
AFR and Lambse/lambda display the same thing in essence. lambda of 1 = stoichiometry, and < 1 is rich and > 1 is lean.
Measured AFR can vary depending on fuel type, but lambda will always be 1. But to answer your question, MAFR and lambda both display air fuel ratio, but are just giving you he information in a different way. Also, some of the values are measured values and some are commanded values. In this case, lambse is likely the commander afr as ordered by the ecu, while the other two are the actual measured values just displayed in different ways.
Measured AFR can vary depending on fuel type, but lambda will always be 1. But to answer your question, MAFR and lambda both display air fuel ratio, but are just giving you he information in a different way. Also, some of the values are measured values and some are commanded values. In this case, lambse is likely the commander afr as ordered by the ecu, while the other two are the actual measured values just displayed in different ways.
In an ideal situation your lambse will follow or be the same as lambda, however it's quite common (on highly modified vehicles) to see a much lower lambse vs. lambda.
For example say your target lambda is .82 (not taking in account any adders such as cat protection etc...) and your lambse is .65, you could still have a lambda of .82 however
what this is really indicating is that you have a fuel system issue/limitation somewhere that needs to be addressed before things go badly...
03-21-2019, 08:18 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Pretty much. Maybe an easier way to explain it is lambse is how much enrichment is being commanded/requested to meet your target lambda.
In an ideal situation your lambse will follow or be the same as lambda, however it's quite common (on highly modified vehicles) to see a much lower lambse vs. lambda.
For example say your target lambda is .82 (not taking in account any adders such as cat protection etc...) and your lambse is .65, you could still have a lambda of .82 however
what this is really indicating is that you have a fuel system issue/limitation somewhere that needs to be addressed before things go badly...
In an ideal situation your lambse will follow or be the same as lambda, however it's quite common (on highly modified vehicles) to see a much lower lambse vs. lambda.
For example say your target lambda is .82 (not taking in account any adders such as cat protection etc...) and your lambse is .65, you could still have a lambda of .82 however
what this is really indicating is that you have a fuel system issue/limitation somewhere that needs to be addressed before things go badly...
03-21-2019, 08:23 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
So this is a good set of instructions: Config instructions
This is slightly different from what you are going to do, but gives you a general idea. What you need to do is plug your Livewire device into your truck, then using the USB cable, plug the livewire device into your laptop. Start the truck and using the live link prompts, select create a configuration file. Because your livewire is plugged into the laptop and your truck, it should display a list of all the available PID's for your truck and strategy code. Just select the ones you want to put into the config file, then refer to the Bama instructions on how to save that as a file that's compatible with your device.
It seems complicated, but it really isn't all that hard once you get the general idea how Live Link works.
Video instructions of using Live Link when connected to the truck and device
Video
Another video
This is slightly different from what you are going to do, but gives you a general idea. What you need to do is plug your Livewire device into your truck, then using the USB cable, plug the livewire device into your laptop. Start the truck and using the live link prompts, select create a configuration file. Because your livewire is plugged into the laptop and your truck, it should display a list of all the available PID's for your truck and strategy code. Just select the ones you want to put into the config file, then refer to the Bama instructions on how to save that as a file that's compatible with your device.
It seems complicated, but it really isn't all that hard once you get the general idea how Live Link works.
Video instructions of using Live Link when connected to the truck and device
Video
Another video