Spahrman5

Just wanted to report the location of a water leak I identified on my 17 XL Supercrew (STX) in case anyone is in similar situation. I've done lots of searching on the forum and there are several documented locations these trucks tend to leak - below included. Going to add my pictures and description to the pile.

Symptoms: After a rain, I would sometime notice water drips on my drivers side Husky floor mat. Sometimes a small puddle. Didn't' matter how the truck was parked (nose up/down). When I'd pull out of the driveway, water would occasionally dump onto the pedals and the driver's feet (thanks to the wife for noticing this one). Noticed later when investigating - water-soaked passenger side carpet (way up behind the panel located just below the glove compartment), strong mildew smell and water collecting inside the passenger side rocker (must remove rocker trim to see).

A currently unproven symptom was a recurring yellow wrench light, limp mode, various codes involving electrical short/open circuits and loss of communication between modules. First occurrence was last October, see thread if you want more info. (https://www.f150forum.com/f118/yello...-start-460162/). In summary, the dealer blamed the remote starter, unplugged it, and cleared the codes. Said the communication errors pertained to my Gateway Module (OBD port), Power Control Module (PCM) and Body Control Module (BCM). I didn't exactly agree with the diagnosis, but removed the remote starter entirely. The wrench light returned a few months later while driving (didn't kill the truck this time) and again a few weeks ago.

Where was the water showing? This was hard to find. The drips would dry by the time I had a chance to look under the dash - left no trace once dry. Caught a break last week when my wife moved the truck down the driveway to make room for the kids to play while I was home. Her feet got wet again so I immediately investigated. On my back under the steering wheel, I was able to reach up all the way to where the firewall is bent horizontally and forms a shelf (where the top of the plastic dash meets the firewall and windshield). This is immediately above where the carpet stops. That shelf was full of water. So much so that is ran down my arm, soaking my sleeve.

Good enough for me - I'm under warranty - off to the dealer it goes. They brought in the "water specialists" who looked at it for two days and could not find the leak or even get water to show inside the cab.

Back at home, with a hose, an afternoon and removal of a few interior parts, I was able to trace the leak to the metal seam between the passenger side cowl and the inner fender. It appears to be a seem that was incorrectly glued during manufacturing. What is happening is the water that runs down the passenger side roof channel, down or next to the windshield, flows under the plastic cowl trim and across/into this seam. While very hard to see without taking the dash or HVAC equipment out of the truck, I believe three panels are joined at this location - Cowl, Inner fender, and firewall. When the water enters the leaky seam, it collects on the top of a "shelf" formed by the lower cowl/firewall panel connection. This "shelf" is located immediately under the dash inside the truck. Water collects and can flow from passenger-side to drivers-side and drop off the shelf when it overflows or when the truck is in motion. With some interior panels removed, I could immediately smell a strong mildew odor, see soaked carpet and pad, and see the water flowing past the BCM and collecting inside the passenger-side rocker (submerging a wire bundle).

Pictures of everything below:

First symptom noticed - drips on floor, pedals, feet.

Instrument cluster removed - Top of firewall "shelf" holding water.

Red-line is the top of the firewall that creates a horizontal "shelf" that is holding water. Can only view or get your hands on shelf near steering wheel and behind radio (barely) without removing the dash. Water soaked carpet pulled back, rocker full of water.

Water collecting in passenger-side rocker. Water is trickling from above and under the BCM.

Seam that is leaking - must remove both plastic cowl trim pieces to view.

Close-up of leaky seam.

Another view of leaky seam.


So the truck is now going back to the dealer tonight to get this seam resealed. I considered just applying seam sealer myself, but I'd like the issue documented - particularly due to wrench light/electrical issues I've been having. For past 7 months, water has been raining down on top of my gateway module (above my pedals), my body control module (passenger side), submerging a wire bundle connected to my BCM (passenger rocker), and collecting on a shelf where the power control module (PCM) and harnesses pass through the firewall (PMC is under the metal cowl on the passenger side). Likely an exaggeration on my part, but these are all the modules that experienced communication issues during my wrench light events. I asked this dealer to investigate the wrench light, even though they just want me to wait to see if it happens again. I know I won't get any thorough investigation into this issue - I just hope nothing has been damaged/corroded to the point that it will cause issues in the future once I'm out of warranty.

I hope this helps anyone in a similar situation. This wasn't particularly hard to find, just takes patience.

-Spahrman5

Flamingtaco

Great write-up! Glad you found the problem, but sad you had to do the work yourself due to dealership incompetency. Maybe you can get them to reimburse you for your time

elptxjc

Damn. Good job. I'd push to get all those modules replaced. How long/miles did you have this issue? I think you're correct in assuming there must be a decrease in life expectancy from those modules. If Ford/dealer doesn't want to replace them, at least force them to give you an extended warranty. Good luck.

Spahrman5

Thanks! It's sort-of funny because I justified this purchase with my wife (and myself) by focusing on the warranty and "not having to worry about working on it myself". Truth be told, I've been to the dealer(s) more times and had to investigate more things myself in the past 2.5 years than the last 15.I got rid of a 01 F150 and a Volkswagen for God's sake - Lol. I still like the truck a lot and it's easier doing it myself than being constantly frustrated by the dealer's attempts.

We'll that's the part I don't know. Being its a leak at the seam, it would stand to reason that it was leaking since the day it was built. If seams are cracking open from use, we have bigger problems. However, I only noticed electrical issues 7 months ago (maybe 5k miles ago). I only noticed water dripping maybe 2 months ago. Who knows.
As far as module replacement - I wont hold my breath. I would like them to visually check the harness connections to those modules for corrosion. I checked the BCM connections myself and they looked ok.

Spahrman5

I dropped my truck off at the dealer last week and provided ALL of the information presented above. I even verified the next day with service writer. He read back a full page of detailed description I provided - including which panels to remove. I even marked the spot on the truck. I asked that they also check my modules/connections for water intrusion because I randomly get a wrench light.

They kept it for two days then call and tell me they found the leak. Lol - whatever, as long as you fixed it. The tech pulled lots of random communication codes, two of which he wrote on my receipt - P061E (O2 sensor circuit fault) and U0140 (loss of communication with BCM). He found water in the BCM connections and checked and cleaned all module connections on the passenger side. Cleared the codes and road tested SAT.

The next morning I find this. Reach my arm up to the firewall/cowl seam behind the instrument cluster and it's full of water.


Still leaking after dealer said they sealed the seam.

I pop the hood and remove the passenger side cowl trim and find nothing has been done. Looks exactly as it did in the pictures in the OP. Call my service writer and ask him what exactly they sealed, because they didn't seal the leaky seam. He said they "sealed a seam inside". I can't call total BS because I didn't pull the truck back apart, but there was no seam access from the inside without removing the dash (which they didn't do). Furthermore, why would you seal the inside and trap the water? I guess as long as I don't see it... Dealer wanted me to bring it back in for a third time. I told them to forget it, I'll fix it myself and explained why I think their sub "Water Dr." is incompetent as well as the service department for not checking work they farm out.

The Fix: The following is for those of you reading this years from now and out of warranty or those of you in present time who live in a Ford Dealer network like mine where everything a battle. I went to Napa, purchased 3M Seam Sealer for $22 (of which $21.50 worth will be thrown away after it hardens on the shelf over the next year). I abraded the paint around the seam (600 grit paper or a 3M pad) and cleaned with thinner, applied a bead of sealer with a caulking gun and smoothed it with a brush. Didn't bother painting it because its covered by the cowl trim. It is now finally fixed. I am 95% sure my wrench light issues were water-related and will be cured as well. I'll leave the remote start out of the truck until next winter to be sure.

Gotta love having a truck under warranty


Abrade surface

3M Seam Sealer

Seam Sealed

icantdrive55

Nice work! Thx for the detailed write-up. Be sure and leave a follow-up to let us know if that did the trick.

Red barren

I would lodge a complaint against the stealership with ford themselves. Dealerships really need to be held accountable for there work or lack there of. I’m sure there are a lot of good dealerships out there,but when you label it all in black and white for them after they couldn’t initially find it and they still are incompetent to do the task,there is something really wrong.

13fx4150

From my own personal experience, if I take info like a TSB to a dealer on a problem I’m experiencing, they will get offended for some reason. Maybe they assume that I am telling them they don’t know how to do their job properly?

Spahrman5

I will definitely reply back if the leak shows up again, but it looks 100% fixed. We had a few storms roll through today. I moved the truck around and no leak or water at the "normal" places.

Red barren, you're preaching to the choir, but 13fx4150 hit the nail on the head. Any time I try to ask follow-up questions or try to get any amount of detail on what they did, they get super defensive. At risk of looking like the a-hole, this was my 3rd local dealer. I took it to the first dealer to get the seat belt pre-tensioner recall performed and to look at my rear window defroster, which quit working on the drivers side. They did a sloppy job on recall (foil tape sticking out from the trim on my carpeting, both sides) and said my rear defroster "was working". I never said a word about the foil tape, but ask how they could miss the non-operational rear defroster. Long story short, they admitted they never looked at it - they were busy - I need to bring it back in or I can just go somewhere else. These were words from the management after I answered the survey they sent. The 2nd dealer replaced the rear window/defroster. Second visit to 2nd dealer for dead truck/wrench light (link in OP) and a rusting front bumper. Very, very long story, short-ish they blamed by remote starter for the wrench light and said I voided my warranty on any interior electronics because of it. They were going to write a note in my "file". They told me the front bumper was approved by Ford to be stripped and repainted. Goes to a body shop and the dealer calls to shake me down for $300 to get the bumper repainted. Story now is Ford only approved blending the painted bumper, dealer recommends full repaint - I decline, but say I want it fixed properly and to figure it out. I get the truck back after a week with dripping clear-coat in the fog light wells and what looks like packing tape (i wish I were exaggerating) across the entire top of the bumper to replace the clear factory, neatly cut rub guards. I very polity, but firmly said this was unacceptable. The aggression and defensiveness was astounding. They accused me of bringing it in like that and said they have pictures - I said so do I. Management was just as aggressive, but sent it back to get repainted properly. Fast forward a few months, another wrench light. I call 2nd dealership back and they put on a manager. Tells me hes not taking any work. Tells me to go to another dealership. So here I am at the 3rd - much more friendly, but same results. I chalk it up to being in a very populated area - lots of customers so the dealer doesn't have to please me. Their service bay's are full with or without someone who asks questions.

Rolling Thunder

Would Permatex black silicone RTV work the same?