Question about payload
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 339
Likes: 51
From: Alberta Canada
I will add that if your gvwr is 6800lb and payload is 1682lb then your truck actually weighs 5118lbs according to ford. There is no gap between gvwr and payload so if you weighed your truck at 4800lbs your scale was wrong.
I agree the truck is not enough for what you want to do. 1700lb of bricks would also be different since all the weight would be below the bed rails. A slide in camper has the weight much higher and the handling of the truck would be totally compromised. Keep your pull behind its well within specs.
Good post Great White. As a side not for information purposes I was going to tell you the 2015+ 8.8 is actually nothing like the old 8.8. The gears are not at all the same so nothing interchanges. The pinion gear is longer and thicker and the ring gear is thicker as well. The carriers are completely different and use 34 spline axles and the housing is bigger and heavier. It's about time too since the old 8.8 was not really up to truck duty especially with today's engines and tow ratings.
I agree the truck is not enough for what you want to do. 1700lb of bricks would also be different since all the weight would be below the bed rails. A slide in camper has the weight much higher and the handling of the truck would be totally compromised. Keep your pull behind its well within specs.
Good post Great White. As a side not for information purposes I was going to tell you the 2015+ 8.8 is actually nothing like the old 8.8. The gears are not at all the same so nothing interchanges. The pinion gear is longer and thicker and the ring gear is thicker as well. The carriers are completely different and use 34 spline axles and the housing is bigger and heavier. It's about time too since the old 8.8 was not really up to truck duty especially with today's engines and tow ratings.
I will add that if your gvwr is 6800lb and payload is 1682lb then your truck actually weighs 5118lbs according to ford. There is no gap between gvwr and payload so if you weighed your truck at 4800lbs your scale was wrong.
I agree the truck is not enough for what you want to do. 1700lb of bricks would also be different since all the weight would be below the bed rails. A slide in camper has the weight much higher and the handling of the truck would be totally compromised. Keep your pull behind its well within specs.
Good post Great White. As a side not for information purposes I was going to tell you the 2015+ 8.8 is actually nothing like the old 8.8. The gears are not at all the same so nothing interchanges. The pinion gear is longer and thicker and the ring gear is thicker as well. The carriers are completely different and use 34 spline axles and the housing is bigger and heavier. It's about time too since the old 8.8 was not really up to truck duty especially with today's engines and tow ratings.
I agree the truck is not enough for what you want to do. 1700lb of bricks would also be different since all the weight would be below the bed rails. A slide in camper has the weight much higher and the handling of the truck would be totally compromised. Keep your pull behind its well within specs.
Good post Great White. As a side not for information purposes I was going to tell you the 2015+ 8.8 is actually nothing like the old 8.8. The gears are not at all the same so nothing interchanges. The pinion gear is longer and thicker and the ring gear is thicker as well. The carriers are completely different and use 34 spline axles and the housing is bigger and heavier. It's about time too since the old 8.8 was not really up to truck duty especially with today's engines and tow ratings.
I haven't had a newer 8.8 apart because, well.....they're too new ($$$$)! NIce to see they upped the pinion, was a significant weak point. If only they're get rid of the bloody crush sleeve an go to a solid collar and shims.
I'm running a 31 spline CF Trac lock 8.8 in my 83 mustang and it's plenty strong for that. It's also got a sleeve eliminator and Mark Williams enterprises caps.
Last edited by Great white; Dec 30, 2016 at 12:25 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 224
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Some great points and info Great White, E. Manuel and Greg.
And Great White, you didn't sound preachy to me either.
Let me address your points and notes.
The slide in I'm looking at is indeed a fairly small one, the Palomino SS 550. They list the dry weight at 1594 lb but add in the lp tank, water and battery and I'm thinking it's pretty close to 1700lb.
Here's a link for anyone interested:
http://www.palominorv.com/product-de...elID=2604#Main
Btw, I see those advertised mounted on the last gen half tons in all kinds of advertising. Agreed, those guys will say anything to sell you a camper, but if those were such death traps litigation would get them eventually.
Also, as an aside, a company called Living Lite is selling Ford authorized hard sided campers for the new gen F150's:
https://www.livinlite.com/ford/ford-truckcampers.htm
Notice that some of those camper weights for the half ton is over 2900lb which means with people and supplies it would exceed the limit of even the highest payloaded F150. So why would Ford endorse this? This is what made me think my own truck would have a chance with a smaller payload.
My fixation with the axle is that it's the only variable I can think of that I can't change without a lot of work. My truck does have the tow package (trans cooler plus whatever else comes with that) but not max tow.
The weak points that I can see payload wise are:
Engine - since it's listed as towing up to 7600lb, that shouldn't be an issue. The engine doesn't care if the load is on top or behind the truck
Suspension - Can be addressed
Tires - can be addressed
Frame and frame mounting points - I've read that HD payload trucks have a thicker frame. But I've also read that only a handful of those were ever made. Honestly, as long as the frame in my truck is at least as strong as the 90 I had (or even the 99 I had) I really don't think I'm pushing the frame. You mentioned the suspension mounting points breaking or being damaged. That is a good point, but are they really different from the HD versions? That is why I asked.
You mentioned frontal area. That's really not an issue either. Towing a full height camper gives at least the same frontal area as a slide in popup once buttoned down. Same with the large tall area behind, a towed camper has pretty much the same drag characteristics.
So it really all boils down to the axles and differentials. Good point there about bent axle tubes. Done that in my old mustang as well. I'm surprised how little power it took to twist yours, even with slicks (I assume?). I did it also on slicks and as you mentioned, ended up having bracing added. And also those stupid c clips.
Someone mentioned the 6800lb and that my truck does not weigh 4800lb. Maybe I wasn't clear, the 6800lb is the total GAWR (total axle load for both front and back). As E. Manuel pointed out, that is usually more than GVWR, which is $6500 lb. So 6500lb - 1692 is 4808lb. That's why I used the GAWR to determine the max Ford allows as load on the axles, and it gave a max of 2092lb payload. The way I calculate (my camping expeditions are strictly solo, no pets human or otherwise), and I do have my gear weighed pretty closely, I'll be carrying a total of 2200-2300lb, with me and all my gear. The variation comes in with the length of stay.
But you now got me thinking about load on the axles to to the extra payload. That has to affect bearings, and even given that these axles and differential are stronger, I wonder what repeated use would do.
But then I'm also intrigued as to why Ford is endorsing those heavy hard sided truck campers. Surely they don't expect to sell those only to the handful or so HD payload owners?
And Great White, you didn't sound preachy to me either.
Let me address your points and notes.
The slide in I'm looking at is indeed a fairly small one, the Palomino SS 550. They list the dry weight at 1594 lb but add in the lp tank, water and battery and I'm thinking it's pretty close to 1700lb.
Here's a link for anyone interested:
http://www.palominorv.com/product-de...elID=2604#Main
Btw, I see those advertised mounted on the last gen half tons in all kinds of advertising. Agreed, those guys will say anything to sell you a camper, but if those were such death traps litigation would get them eventually.
Also, as an aside, a company called Living Lite is selling Ford authorized hard sided campers for the new gen F150's:
https://www.livinlite.com/ford/ford-truckcampers.htm
Notice that some of those camper weights for the half ton is over 2900lb which means with people and supplies it would exceed the limit of even the highest payloaded F150. So why would Ford endorse this? This is what made me think my own truck would have a chance with a smaller payload.
My fixation with the axle is that it's the only variable I can think of that I can't change without a lot of work. My truck does have the tow package (trans cooler plus whatever else comes with that) but not max tow.
The weak points that I can see payload wise are:
Engine - since it's listed as towing up to 7600lb, that shouldn't be an issue. The engine doesn't care if the load is on top or behind the truck
Suspension - Can be addressed
Tires - can be addressed
Frame and frame mounting points - I've read that HD payload trucks have a thicker frame. But I've also read that only a handful of those were ever made. Honestly, as long as the frame in my truck is at least as strong as the 90 I had (or even the 99 I had) I really don't think I'm pushing the frame. You mentioned the suspension mounting points breaking or being damaged. That is a good point, but are they really different from the HD versions? That is why I asked.
You mentioned frontal area. That's really not an issue either. Towing a full height camper gives at least the same frontal area as a slide in popup once buttoned down. Same with the large tall area behind, a towed camper has pretty much the same drag characteristics.
So it really all boils down to the axles and differentials. Good point there about bent axle tubes. Done that in my old mustang as well. I'm surprised how little power it took to twist yours, even with slicks (I assume?). I did it also on slicks and as you mentioned, ended up having bracing added. And also those stupid c clips.
Someone mentioned the 6800lb and that my truck does not weigh 4800lb. Maybe I wasn't clear, the 6800lb is the total GAWR (total axle load for both front and back). As E. Manuel pointed out, that is usually more than GVWR, which is $6500 lb. So 6500lb - 1692 is 4808lb. That's why I used the GAWR to determine the max Ford allows as load on the axles, and it gave a max of 2092lb payload. The way I calculate (my camping expeditions are strictly solo, no pets human or otherwise), and I do have my gear weighed pretty closely, I'll be carrying a total of 2200-2300lb, with me and all my gear. The variation comes in with the length of stay.
But you now got me thinking about load on the axles to to the extra payload. That has to affect bearings, and even given that these axles and differential are stronger, I wonder what repeated use would do.
But then I'm also intrigued as to why Ford is endorsing those heavy hard sided truck campers. Surely they don't expect to sell those only to the handful or so HD payload owners?
Last edited by dciobota; Dec 30, 2016 at 06:45 PM.
Ford "licensed" isn't the same as the truck being capable. Ford has lots of trucks capable of carrying all their trailers. The F-150 just doesn't have the rating.
You're the owner and as such you are responsible for the loading.
Ford's way out is that they give you the trucks capacities and that you chose to exceed them.
It's the way the legal dept. works in any company.
It's kind of like the other thread on here some guy just started about it being illegal to tow with an F150 because Ford didn't install a trailer brake controller on his truck. Ford gave him an 8600 lb tow rating, but he says they lied to him because it doesn't have a trailer brake controller to control the trailer brakes required by law on trailers over a certain weight. Legal dept would laugh him right out the front door....
The slide in co. has lots of "outs" in the picture of the f150 with the slide in hanging above it. Like they are showing how it will fit in a 6.5' box. If pressed, they would also say not to exceed the GVWR. They can't say anything else or they open themselves up to legal action if something goes wrong. They do, at least, if they put it in writing. If you notice, they only talk about dimensions fitting the F150, not GVWR. That's because they know ultimately it's your responsibility as the "loader" to not exceed the GVWR. They sell you the slide in, what you do with it isn't their responsibility. That's pretty greasy of them IMHO...
Anyways, your call brother.
Happy New year.
You're the owner and as such you are responsible for the loading.
Ford's way out is that they give you the trucks capacities and that you chose to exceed them.
It's the way the legal dept. works in any company.
It's kind of like the other thread on here some guy just started about it being illegal to tow with an F150 because Ford didn't install a trailer brake controller on his truck. Ford gave him an 8600 lb tow rating, but he says they lied to him because it doesn't have a trailer brake controller to control the trailer brakes required by law on trailers over a certain weight. Legal dept would laugh him right out the front door....
The slide in co. has lots of "outs" in the picture of the f150 with the slide in hanging above it. Like they are showing how it will fit in a 6.5' box. If pressed, they would also say not to exceed the GVWR. They can't say anything else or they open themselves up to legal action if something goes wrong. They do, at least, if they put it in writing. If you notice, they only talk about dimensions fitting the F150, not GVWR. That's because they know ultimately it's your responsibility as the "loader" to not exceed the GVWR. They sell you the slide in, what you do with it isn't their responsibility. That's pretty greasy of them IMHO...
Anyways, your call brother.
Happy New year.
Last edited by Great white; Dec 30, 2016 at 07:16 PM.