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So you have 5 sets of data. All of them show the PCM is closed looped meaning the PCM thinks it has control. This also implies the cam sensors & crank sensor are outputting signals. Otherwise you would have DTC codes for them. Also note that the oscilloscope ranges get skewed because of the glitches so there’s a lot of interpretation necessary. The Ford values are so called typical and have no range specified so we are really looking for something close to actual position and minimal difference.
So the xxx_ACTx PID’s are the actual camshaft position while the xxxDIFx PID’s are the difference between where they should be and where they are. The xxxDIFx’s should always be close to zero when operating correctly.
Data Set 1 – Hot Idle
Typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. These reading are OK except the intake Idle Hot should be at 20d not 0d. I see this when starting up cold but otherwise it should b 20d. Are you sure this was Hot Idle?
Data Set 2 – 30 MPH
Typical is 29d intake & 40d exhaust. It looks like the speed was not stable in this data set because there are two distinct points in the exhaust timing data. It starts out at 43d then drops to roughly 20d while the intake is holding at about 11d. But the differences appear close to 0d so what ever was going on it’s not to concerning.
Data Set 3 – 55 MPH
Typical is 40d on the intake & exhaust. Yours is trending about 41 & 50 respectively while the differences are minimal – again lots of interpretation here because of the ranges. So not too concerning here.
Data Set 4 – Hot Idle
Again, typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. Here the intake bank 1 is pretty close to normal but is probably being impacted by bank 2 having a high difference. It looks like the bank 2 intake solenoid is struggling to gain control. The exhaust timing is OK.
Data Set 5 – Hot Idle
Again, typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. This is very similar to Data Set 4 but both intake banks 1 & 2 are being impacted. Bank 1 still seem to be in control but bank 2 still has a high difference.
So it looks like you have a VCT issue with the intake bank 2 & maybe bank 1 also. Did you replace the VCT solenoids with a Ford part?
You can ignore the exhaust PID’s and look closer at the Intake PID’s. I would setup the traces as follows:
So you have 5 sets of data. All of them show the PCM is closed looped meaning the PCM thinks it has control. This also implies the cam sensors & crank sensor are outputting signals. Otherwise you would have DTC codes for them. Also note that the oscilloscope ranges get skewed because of the glitches so there’s a lot of interpretation necessary. The Ford values are so called typical and have no range specified so we are really looking for something close to actual position and minimal difference.
So the xxx_ACTx PID’s are the actual camshaft position while the xxxDIFx PID’s are the difference between where they should be and where they are. The xxxDIFx’s should always be close to zero when operating correctly.
Data Set 1 – Hot Idle
Typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. These reading are OK except the intake Idle Hot should be at 20d not 0d. I see this when starting up cold but otherwise it should b 20d. Are you sure this was Hot Idle?
Data Set 2 – 30 MPH
Typical is 29d intake & 40d exhaust. It looks like the speed was not stable in this data set because there are two distinct points in the exhaust timing data. It starts out at 43d then drops to roughly 20d while the intake is holding at about 11d. But the differences appear close to 0d so what ever was going on it’s not to concerning.
Data Set 3 – 55 MPH
Typical is 40d on the intake & exhaust. Yours is trending about 41 & 50 respectively while the differences are minimal – again lots of interpretation here because of the ranges. So not too concerning here.
Data Set 4 – Hot Idle
Again, typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. Here the intake bank 1 is pretty close to normal but is probably being impacted by bank 2 having a high difference. It looks like the bank 2 intake solenoid is struggling to gain control. The exhaust timing is OK.
Data Set 5 – Hot Idle
Again, typical is 20d intake & 0d exhaust. This is very similar to Data Set 4 but both intake banks 1 & 2 are being impacted. Bank 1 still seem to be in control but bank 2 still has a high difference.
So it looks like you have a VCT issue with the intake bank 2 & maybe bank 1 also. Did you replace the VCT solenoids with a Ford part?
You can ignore the exhaust PID’s and look closer at the Intake PID’s. I would setup the traces as follows:
You only need to run a Hot Idle trace. When the truck is fully warmed up the oil pressure will drop to around 12 psi.
Was the tarnish buildup less or more than shown below?
Are you still planning on the Seafoam treatment?.
yes it was hot idle when the car is fully warm. And yes I did replace all 4 vct solenoids few weeks ago and the oil build up was like the pic you provided it’s probably less too. Yes I am trying to add Seafoam treatment to the oil but I am waiting to put some miles on it since I replaced the oil recently and it state that I have to add Seafoam 500 miles before change or can I add it now and let it run I think there is like 4k miles left before the next oil change . I also emailed brain from the ford tech Maculoco and he said mostly like it’s the vct intake phasers . I never replaced the phasers when I bought the truck. I replaced the solenoids and gaskets and all
yes it was hot idle when the car is fully warm. And yes I did replace all 4 vct solenoids few weeks ago and the oil build up was like the pic you provided it’s probably less too. Yes I am trying to add Seafoam treatment to the oil but I am waiting to put some miles on it since I replaced the oil recently and it state that I have to add Seafoam 500 miles before change or can I add it now and let it run I think there is like 4k miles left before the next oil change . I also emailed brain from the ford tech Maculoco and he said mostly like it’s the vct intake phasers . I never replaced the phasers when I bought the truck. I replaced the solenoids and gaskets and all
I also will run those new setups tomorrow and see what it shows
I know you replaced the solenoids but were they Ford parts?
Replacing the phasors is a major job.
It requires removing everything off the front of the motor.
At that point you might want to replace chains, guides, tensioners, oil pump and the phasors.
If you do this do don't forget to replace those filter screens.
There's nothing worse than doing all this work only to find out it was not the problem! That's why you want to make sure you have eliminated all other possibilities!
I know you replaced the solenoids but were they Ford parts?
Replacing the phasors is a major job.
It requires removing everything off the front of the motor.
At that point you might want to replace chains, guides, tensioners, oil pump and the phasors.
If you do this do don't forget to replace those filter screens.
There's nothing worse than doing all this work only to find out it was not the problem! That's why you want to make sure you have eliminated all other possibilities!
I had to only take the valve cover to replace the solenoids, and no I replaced them with aftermarket part not with original ford. The problem with idle issue been even before I replace the solenoids and was there after I replaced them too. So I don’t think they are the solenoids. The chain and all that seem fine and not stretched but worse situation if after all we couldn’t fix it and or find exactly what’s going on then I’ll go there again and replace the rest of the parts
I had to only take the valve cover to replace the solenoids, and no I replaced them with aftermarket part not with original ford. The problem with idle issue been even before I replace the solenoids and was there after I replaced them too. So I don’t think they are the solenoids. The chain and all that seem fine and not stretched but worse situation if after all we couldn’t fix it and or find exactly what’s going on then I’ll go there again and replace the rest of the parts
My opinion is that an aftermarket solenoid component in this application is not good & may still be the problem.
You cannot replace the phasors without removing the timing chain cover and chains. If you do this I would examine the chains closely because they are a high wear item especially if the proper oil has not been used.
A key operational factor in the VCT operation is oil pressure, especially at idle when the PCM lowers the oil pressure to only 12 psi. Tarnish buildup and/or crude in those filter screens becomes a factor.
These motors really need the correct oil especially if you do a lot of short drives where the motor does not warmup completely. I'm on the fence about full synthetic and use only the Ford Synthetic Blend 5W-20 as specified for the US market.
It'll be interesting to see your traces with the mentioned PID's.
My opinion is that an aftermarket solenoid component in this application is not good & may still be the problem.
You cannot replace the phasors without removing the timing chain cover and chains. If you do this I would examine the chains closely because they are a high wear item especially if the proper oil has not been used.
A key operational factor in the VCT operation is oil pressure, especially at idle when the PCM lowers the oil pressure to only 12 psi. Tarnish buildup and/or crude in those filter screens becomes a factor.
These motors really need the correct oil especially if you do a lot of short drives where the motor does not warmup completely. I'm on the fence about full synthetic and use only the Ford Synthetic Blend 5W-20 as specified for the US market.
It'll be interesting to see your traces with the mentioned PID's.
Hot idle from cold start Hot idle after a small ride Hot idle after the short ride while it stalled or had rough idle for few seconds That’s when it hot after the first start
So in your first set of traces the oil pressure is fine, the system is closed loop, the pcm wants 20d of intake advance. Clearly Bank 1 is oscillating +/- 5d which is not good. Bank 2 is doing pretty good holding at 20d with little difference.
The second set of traces shows pretty much what you want to see. The ranges are skewed because you caught something at the beginning maybe when starting up or stepped on the gas. When this happens you can get a better view by stopping then starting the recording. But anyway, this set looks good.
The third set of traces shows both Banks 1 & 2 out of whack. The PCM wants 20d and it’s not getting it on either bank.
It seems your stalling situation is occurring when both banks are acting up together. Most of time Bank 1 is having problems while Bank 2 comes and goes.
So its definitely a VCT issue & I’m pretty sure you can eliminate any of the sensors.
On the Gen 2 engines the intake phasors are supposed to lockup at idle & I’m pretty sure they added this to help control them better at idle. If you still have your old solenoids you can unplug the intake solenoids on your motor and connect the old ones up instead. Just the intakes (2). This way the PCM will not throw a bunch of codes and we can look at the traces without the effects of solenoids. Hopefully we can see if the phasers are staying put or flopping around. Warmup before you do this because you don't want anything but idle with the solenoids disconnected.
So in your first set of traces the oil pressure is fine, the system is closed loop, the pcm wants 20d of intake advance. Clearly Bank 1 is oscillating +/- 5d which is not good. Bank 2 is doing pretty good holding at 20d with little difference.
The second set of traces shows pretty much what you want to see. The ranges are skewed because you caught something at the beginning maybe when starting up or stepped on the gas. When this happens you can get a better view by stopping then starting the recording. But anyway, this set looks good.
The third set of traces shows both Banks 1 & 2 out of whack. The PCM wants 20d and it’s not getting it on either bank.
It seems your stalling situation is occurring when both banks are acting up together. Most of time Bank 1 is having problems while Bank 2 comes and goes.
So its definitely a VCT issue & I’m pretty sure you can eliminate any of the sensors.
On the Gen 2 engines the intake phasors are supposed to lockup at idle & I’m pretty sure they added this to help control them better at idle. If you still have your old solenoids you can unplug the intake solenoids on your motor and connect the old ones up instead. Just the intakes (2). This way the PCM will not throw a bunch of codes and we can look at the traces without the effects of solenoids. Hopefully we can see if the phasers are staying put or flopping around. Warmup before you do this because you don't want anything but idle with the solenoids disconnected.
That’s great info. The only problem is that I don’t have the old vct solenoids, and I take side is the driver side valve cover right ? Since I don’t have the solenoids, what would be the next step to find out exactly what the problem so I can fix it
So in your first set of traces the oil pressure is fine, the system is closed loop, the pcm wants 20d of intake advance. Clearly Bank 1 is oscillating +/- 5d which is not good. Bank 2 is doing pretty good holding at 20d with little difference.
The second set of traces shows pretty much what you want to see. The ranges are skewed because you caught something at the beginning maybe when starting up or stepped on the gas. When this happens you can get a better view by stopping then starting the recording. But anyway, this set looks good.
The third set of traces shows both Banks 1 & 2 out of whack. The PCM wants 20d and it’s not getting it on either bank.
It seems your stalling situation is occurring when both banks are acting up together. Most of time Bank 1 is having problems while Bank 2 comes and goes.
So its definitely a VCT issue & I’m pretty sure you can eliminate any of the sensors.
On the Gen 2 engines the intake phasors are supposed to lockup at idle & I’m pretty sure they added this to help control them better at idle. If you still have your old solenoids you can unplug the intake solenoids on your motor and connect the old ones up instead. Just the intakes (2). This way the PCM will not throw a bunch of codes and we can look at the traces without the effects of solenoids. Hopefully we can see if the phasers are staying put or flopping around. Warmup before you do this because you don't want anything but idle with the solenoids disconnected.
and the 3rd pic when it start to stall it usually rough idle and go back to normal or rough idle then it dies and I have to start it again
