I STRONGLY urge all to read this - the difference between Ford and the dealer
03-29-2017, 12:52 PM
#41
Jon, good post but this is the silliest think I have every heard. You get a survey for the service provide. That is it. Retaliation against customer for poor reviews for poor service?
So you are saying you would retaliate against a customer who writes a bad review or gives a poor survey? Really?
6- Do NOT raise your voice, threaten, write bad reviews, give poor surveys and expect a good outcome. As a Service Director, I was happy to do anything I could to help a customer who had a conversation about their concerns. But yelling at me and threatening me made me want to do zero and to be honest, you'll move way down on their list.
Last edited by Martian; 03-29-2017 at 12:55 PM. Reason: added quote tags
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03-29-2017, 01:04 PM
#42
I think many of you are missing the point and thank you to LoneRanger for the commentary. Much of this is not based on the dealership view of the customer, this is of a customer view of what I saw every day. I too cringe when I am at a location where people are attacking the staff over something. It is much easier to have a conversation like a civil person than be an arrogant *****. It will go a lot farther. Also, I didn't say to not do research, but out of the millions of vehicles manufacturers sell, there may be a few cases on the internet of a concern, similar to yours, and it's ok to mention it, but don't expect them to do that exact repair. There's a chance a TSB or SSM doesn't apply to your vehicle. My point was to let people do their jobs, if they miss it, bring it up. But they will not and cannot print on an RO "customer saw TSB 14-XXXX." Ford will not pay that claim because they did not follow the procedure as outlined in the Warranty manual.
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03-29-2017, 01:07 PM
#43
DO NOT assume every customer is an idiot either, it goes both ways here. Nothing pisses me off more when I have an issue figured out that is turn key to fix and the service advisor does not even pass the info to the tech and wastes my time by having to bring it back in two more times to get done what was already figured out because the tech's pride got in the way or service advisor rather play the "process" than use common sense.
This board has plenty of threads started with examples of both service advisors and dealership techs ignorant of TSB's and SSM's for things brought in to be fixed and wasting people's time because you did not want to listen to the customer with information in hand you should have known from the get go.
This board has plenty of threads started with examples of both service advisors and dealership techs ignorant of TSB's and SSM's for things brought in to be fixed and wasting people's time because you did not want to listen to the customer with information in hand you should have known from the get go.
I worked for Chrysler Engineering for many years and I had a great rep with the local dealership service personnel, knowing them all by name and would buy coffee for them on my way in for a service. Of course the unfortunate part was I knew them because I was there all the time for warranty, thats not the point. They were glad when I was able to provide them information on what I believe to be the issue, any bit of information helps the tech. Stating that internet searches are not valid and pisses of the Service adviser is short sighted. If the ego of the service manager or service adviser gets in the way of correctly diagnosing a problem, that to me is the bigger problem.
Now, that being said, there is a way to deliver the message, demanding that you found the issue on a forum so it must be fixed under warranty is probably the wrong way to go about it. Showing the service team what is out there on the web so as to help them possibly shorten the time for diagnosis is only helpful and could expedite the time to repair.
6- Do NOT raise your voice, threaten, write bad reviews, give poor surveys and expect a good outcome. As a Service Director, I was happy to do anything I could to help a customer who had a conversation about their concerns. But yelling at me and threatening me made me want to do zero and to be honest, you'll move way down on their list. Sure it's a $50,000 truck, but you don't deserve any treatment better than that of the $15,000 Focus buyer.
As for not rating a dealership low because of poor performance, do you not leave reviews for bad food or service when out dining or for an Amazon purchase? Again, we live in a society that abides and uses ratings of others to make their purchase decision, there is nothing wrong with leaving a honest but professional review. The fact that you state my customer experience would be affected by my honest review makes me glad I do not go to your service center. My dealership scratched the IP, B Pillar and trashed the interior when they replaced the headliner under warranty, first the service director denied it was them after the second trip (first was the initial rejection of service) , then said they didn't remove the A pillar trim to replace the headliner, then after it got very heated, he offered to put in a spray-in for free. Could that all have been avoided if he was honest and understood the service procedure to replace a headliner, most likely. Did I leave a poor review, no, they took care of it. However the service manager now personally reviews my vehicles before they call me and he is fine with that as he gets it....
03-29-2017, 01:11 PM
#44
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
Hi all, I am new to the forum and I have read numerous posts of people bashing Ford about this or that. I am the former technician and service director at a high volume Ford store in Minnesota. I am still with the dealer but have taken on a new role within he dealership. I have had the conversations with owners about EVERYTHING you could imagine. From a transmission failed at 47 miles on a 16 screw, to the quarter panel rust on the square body Escapes. Let's be honest here, leaving Ford for Chevy or Dodge is not the answer and unfortunately there is a lot of stuff that can and should be handled by the dealer. There is a lot that I read on these posts that people are attacking Ford about quality. But surely the chevys have issues as well as the dodges. Anyone ever hear about an injector issue on a Chevy? How about the Tranny of a Mopar? They all have them. I won't tell you how to screw Ford or the Dealership you work with, but I will tell you a few good things to do should you have a vehicle symptom.
1- DO NOT assume your vehicle has the same issue as what you googled and saw on a Forum like this. Bringing that up on your first visit does nothing more than **** off your service advisor because there are procedures that are required in order to file a claim with Ford under warranty.
2- Get a second opinion. If a dealer tells you they feel the concern is normal operation, usually after comparing to like vehicles on the lot, feel free to swing in to another dealer and have them look at it. And if they miss something, accept that they are human and we all make mistakes. Even the techs with 20+ years of experience turning 60 hours a week miss stuff. And they get pissed at themselves when they do because they just left money on the table.
3- If the dealer cannot replicate the issue, they can't fix it. When a tech pulls out the Partington870 and shotguns parts to try and fix what they can't replicate, it will only cause frustration to you and the dealer. You because you have to bring it back, the dealer because they are trying so hard to make you happy that they feel they just TRY something! They will accept a test drive with you if needed to replicate the concern, if they won't, start looking for a new dealer.
4- When a dealer states parts are on backorder, yelling and screaming like a 2 year old will not help get the parts faster. It is frustrating and it sucks for them too because they want nothing more than to see your vehicle down the road repaired so they can get paid by Ford. I say that because they release the vehicle back to you under the assumption that Ford will pay for the repairs. Millions of dollars in repairs are denied by Ford across the country every year for multiple reasons. Calmy ask if they would start a case with Ford for part escalation. It does not always work but in some cases Ford can find a part faster than the backorder can be lifted.
5- The dealer is NOT Ford. They cannot make decisions or repairs over and above what they are allowed to do by Ford. They cannot put in a long block engine when Ford only approved a short block. Even so small as interior panels that need replacement when performing a repair will not be paid for by Ford.
6- Do NOT raise your voice, threaten, write bad reviews, give poor surveys and expect a good outcome. As a Service Director, I was happy to do anything I could to help a customer who had a conversation about their concerns. But yelling at me and threatening me made me want to do zero and to be honest, you'll move way down on their list. Sure it's a $50,000 truck, but you don't deserve any treatment better than that of the $15,000 Focus buyer.
7- the dealership didn't make $10,000 selling you the tuck. Unless you bought it over sticker in which case you should use the internet more. Our dealership makes very little on the sale of a new vehicle because of how many dealers are working 30 miles of us. If you don't live in a major city, I urge you to travel to find the right vehicle at the right price. Starting at Sticker and negotiating is fun for some but I assure you, you did not win. A "best price" store is the place to go because they will not waste their time or yours negotiating. When they set up that practice it's not a "we're best price with this guy, but the guy over here, we'll negotiate with him. If it's a true best price, the salesperson won't even waste their time talking to a manager.
That's about all I have for now, sorry for the winded post, but reading the posts on here I thought it needed to be said, and many of the complaints on here are less than I would lose hair over...
If anyone has any questions on how something works within a dealership I am happy to help as much as I can.
Jon
1- DO NOT assume your vehicle has the same issue as what you googled and saw on a Forum like this. Bringing that up on your first visit does nothing more than **** off your service advisor because there are procedures that are required in order to file a claim with Ford under warranty.
2- Get a second opinion. If a dealer tells you they feel the concern is normal operation, usually after comparing to like vehicles on the lot, feel free to swing in to another dealer and have them look at it. And if they miss something, accept that they are human and we all make mistakes. Even the techs with 20+ years of experience turning 60 hours a week miss stuff. And they get pissed at themselves when they do because they just left money on the table.
3- If the dealer cannot replicate the issue, they can't fix it. When a tech pulls out the Partington870 and shotguns parts to try and fix what they can't replicate, it will only cause frustration to you and the dealer. You because you have to bring it back, the dealer because they are trying so hard to make you happy that they feel they just TRY something! They will accept a test drive with you if needed to replicate the concern, if they won't, start looking for a new dealer.
4- When a dealer states parts are on backorder, yelling and screaming like a 2 year old will not help get the parts faster. It is frustrating and it sucks for them too because they want nothing more than to see your vehicle down the road repaired so they can get paid by Ford. I say that because they release the vehicle back to you under the assumption that Ford will pay for the repairs. Millions of dollars in repairs are denied by Ford across the country every year for multiple reasons. Calmy ask if they would start a case with Ford for part escalation. It does not always work but in some cases Ford can find a part faster than the backorder can be lifted.
5- The dealer is NOT Ford. They cannot make decisions or repairs over and above what they are allowed to do by Ford. They cannot put in a long block engine when Ford only approved a short block. Even so small as interior panels that need replacement when performing a repair will not be paid for by Ford.
6- Do NOT raise your voice, threaten, write bad reviews, give poor surveys and expect a good outcome. As a Service Director, I was happy to do anything I could to help a customer who had a conversation about their concerns. But yelling at me and threatening me made me want to do zero and to be honest, you'll move way down on their list. Sure it's a $50,000 truck, but you don't deserve any treatment better than that of the $15,000 Focus buyer.
7- the dealership didn't make $10,000 selling you the tuck. Unless you bought it over sticker in which case you should use the internet more. Our dealership makes very little on the sale of a new vehicle because of how many dealers are working 30 miles of us. If you don't live in a major city, I urge you to travel to find the right vehicle at the right price. Starting at Sticker and negotiating is fun for some but I assure you, you did not win. A "best price" store is the place to go because they will not waste their time or yours negotiating. When they set up that practice it's not a "we're best price with this guy, but the guy over here, we'll negotiate with him. If it's a true best price, the salesperson won't even waste their time talking to a manager.
That's about all I have for now, sorry for the winded post, but reading the posts on here I thought it needed to be said, and many of the complaints on here are less than I would lose hair over...
If anyone has any questions on how something works within a dealership I am happy to help as much as I can.
Jon
I agree with most of what you stated. Most of it is common sense (don't yell, we're all humans and make mistakes, etc).
What I disagree with you is how Ford handles repairs. I know the criteria that Ford uses (or used during that decade, has probably changed) on how the handle warranty claims. They do replace interior panels all the time, as they know that their suppliers (IAC NA -which was sold by Lear-, Lear Corp, Visteon, etc) have had QC issues. They will gladly replace a 30 dlls panel in order to keep customers happy. This is part of the "goodwill" warranty discretionary funds they set aside.
Speaking of, most people don't know is that there are many tiers of warranty, among them:
new car
powertrain
emissions
parts
safety systems
recalls and campaigns
goodwill
no-charge maintenance
Each one of these is a separate "warranty" funded by different sources.
Why it takes long or takes multiple tries to fix something when we roll in with an issue is because the dealer and Ford need to determine under which coverage the issue is to be fixed and who gets charged (and subsequently refunded).
This in and of itself is the reason why dealers no longer do the shotgun approach and just throw parts at the problem hoping to fix it. The funds for each type of warranty are limited and Ford will only reimburse the dealer for a fix twice, anything after that its on the dealer's dime (and eats into their profit margin). How profit margins are determined is a different conversation, but people will always point to dealer holdback because thats the one they know about.
Dealers get all sorts of kickbacks from Ford in the form of money (meeting sales quotas, moving inventory older than 60 days, moving hot models, the aforementioned holdback, sales volume, and on and on) and mostly, ancillary services ("The Works", oil changes, etc).
Most buyers thing that they roll into a Ford dealership and they are buying a car/truck/suv from Ford. They are not. Ford sells the vehicle to the dealer (who is an independent business), and they in turn sell it to the bank (or financing unit) who then sells it to the customer/end user.
This is the reason why prices are so inflated. And speaking of prices and profit margins, I guarantee that Ford makes a CHITTON of money on each truck they make. When I left the industry in 2009 (after the meltdown) Ford was making $27,000 on each 300-series truck. The manufacturing cost for a 300 series truck was (around that time) close to $17K per unit (economies of scale).
A good/large dealer that moves around 150 units per cycle (60 months which is when the dealer starts losing money as a result of depreciation and has to compensate in the form of rebates) makes about $10K profit per truck they sell between all forms of compensation. Sure, oddly configured models or low volume models (Edge, Fiesta) may net a lower profit, which is why Ford is always having "Truck month" (which really lasts a full quarter) or some other clearance sales pitch.
Its a very interesting industry, it was filled with all sorts of gotchas and nepotism and waaay too many moving parts that just make the entire process convoluted and therefore expensive.
Example, towards the end of my Visteon days, we had a very, very large project. The project was scheduled to take a year and 15M USD. We did it in 9 months and under 10M.
The divisional president for Latin American operations took all his goons (this was during the SUV heyday in the mid 00s) to celebrate. He expensed out $25K in hookers and food. All paid for by the company.
This kind of excess is why the industry failed and had to be bailed out. Another example of it is Wagoner, flying on his private Jet to ask money from Congress.
The whole industry needed to be cleansed and purged.
EDIT: sorry for the long winded post. It was fun and painful to reminisce about it all
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03-29-2017, 01:18 PM
#45
As for not rating a dealership low because of poor performance, do you not leave reviews for bad food or service when out dining or for an Amazon purchase? Again, we live in a society that abides and uses ratings of others to make their purchase decision, there is nothing wrong with leaving a honest but professional review. The fact that you state my customer experience would be affected by my honest review makes me glad I do not go to your service center.
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magiaone (03-29-2017)
03-29-2017, 01:37 PM
#46
I worked for Ford Engineering (Electrical and Electronics division) in Dearborn and later on Visteon when they were spun off during the Nasser regime (and later on Bill Jr). Put in a long time so I know the game from the manufacturing side as well as the retail side.
I agree with most of what you stated. Most of it is common sense (don't yell, we're all humans and make mistakes, etc).
What I disagree with you is how Ford handles repairs. I know the criteria that Ford uses (or used during that decade, has probably changed) on how the handle warranty claims. They do replace interior panels all the time, as they know that their suppliers (IAC NA -which was sold by Lear-, Lear Corp, Visteon, etc) have had QC issues. They will gladly replace a 30 dlls panel in order to keep customers happy. This is part of the "goodwill" warranty discretionary funds they set aside.
Speaking of, most people don't know is that there are many tiers of warranty, among them:
new car
powertrain
emissions
parts
safety systems
recalls and campaigns
goodwill
no-charge maintenance
Each one of these is a separate "warranty" funded by different sources.
Why it takes long or takes multiple tries to fix something when we roll in with an issue is because the dealer and Ford need to determine under which coverage the issue is to be fixed and who gets charged (and subsequently refunded).
This in and of itself is the reason why dealers no longer do the shotgun approach and just throw parts at the problem hoping to fix it. The funds for each type of warranty are limited and Ford will only reimburse the dealer for a fix twice, anything after that its on the dealer's dime (and eats into their profit margin). How profit margins are determined is a different conversation, but people will always point to dealer holdback because thats the one they know about.
Dealers get all sorts of kickbacks from Ford in the form of money (meeting sales quotas, moving inventory older than 60 days, moving hot models, the aforementioned holdback, sales volume, and on and on) and mostly, ancillary services ("The Works", oil changes, etc).
Most buyers thing that they roll into a Ford dealership and they are buying a car/truck/suv from Ford. They are not. Ford sells the vehicle to the dealer (who is an independent business), and they in turn sell it to the bank (or financing unit) who then sells it to the customer/end user.
This is the reason why prices are so inflated. And speaking of prices and profit margins, I guarantee that Ford makes a CHITTON of money on each truck they make. When I left the industry in 2009 (after the meltdown) Ford was making $27,000 on each 300-series truck. The manufacturing cost for a 300 series truck was (around that time) close to $17K per unit (economies of scale).
A good/large dealer that moves around 150 units per cycle (60 months which is when the dealer starts losing money as a result of depreciation and has to compensate in the form of rebates) makes about $10K profit per truck they sell between all forms of compensation. Sure, oddly configured models or low volume models (Edge, Fiesta) may net a lower profit, which is why Ford is always having "Truck month" (which really lasts a full quarter) or some other clearance sales pitch.
Its a very interesting industry, it was filled with all sorts of gotchas and nepotism and waaay too many moving parts that just make the entire process convoluted and therefore expensive.
Example, towards the end of my Visteon days, we had a very, very large project. The project was scheduled to take a year and 15M USD. We did it in 9 months and under 10M.
The divisional president for Latin American operations took all his goons (this was during the SUV heyday in the mid 00s) to celebrate. He expensed out $25K in hookers and food. All paid for by the company.
This kind of excess is why the industry failed and had to be bailed out. Another example of it is Wagoner, flying on his private Jet to ask money from Congress.
The whole industry needed to be cleansed and purged.
EDIT: sorry for the long winded post. It was fun and painful to reminisce about it all
I agree with most of what you stated. Most of it is common sense (don't yell, we're all humans and make mistakes, etc).
What I disagree with you is how Ford handles repairs. I know the criteria that Ford uses (or used during that decade, has probably changed) on how the handle warranty claims. They do replace interior panels all the time, as they know that their suppliers (IAC NA -which was sold by Lear-, Lear Corp, Visteon, etc) have had QC issues. They will gladly replace a 30 dlls panel in order to keep customers happy. This is part of the "goodwill" warranty discretionary funds they set aside.
Speaking of, most people don't know is that there are many tiers of warranty, among them:
new car
powertrain
emissions
parts
safety systems
recalls and campaigns
goodwill
no-charge maintenance
Each one of these is a separate "warranty" funded by different sources.
Why it takes long or takes multiple tries to fix something when we roll in with an issue is because the dealer and Ford need to determine under which coverage the issue is to be fixed and who gets charged (and subsequently refunded).
This in and of itself is the reason why dealers no longer do the shotgun approach and just throw parts at the problem hoping to fix it. The funds for each type of warranty are limited and Ford will only reimburse the dealer for a fix twice, anything after that its on the dealer's dime (and eats into their profit margin). How profit margins are determined is a different conversation, but people will always point to dealer holdback because thats the one they know about.
Dealers get all sorts of kickbacks from Ford in the form of money (meeting sales quotas, moving inventory older than 60 days, moving hot models, the aforementioned holdback, sales volume, and on and on) and mostly, ancillary services ("The Works", oil changes, etc).
Most buyers thing that they roll into a Ford dealership and they are buying a car/truck/suv from Ford. They are not. Ford sells the vehicle to the dealer (who is an independent business), and they in turn sell it to the bank (or financing unit) who then sells it to the customer/end user.
This is the reason why prices are so inflated. And speaking of prices and profit margins, I guarantee that Ford makes a CHITTON of money on each truck they make. When I left the industry in 2009 (after the meltdown) Ford was making $27,000 on each 300-series truck. The manufacturing cost for a 300 series truck was (around that time) close to $17K per unit (economies of scale).
A good/large dealer that moves around 150 units per cycle (60 months which is when the dealer starts losing money as a result of depreciation and has to compensate in the form of rebates) makes about $10K profit per truck they sell between all forms of compensation. Sure, oddly configured models or low volume models (Edge, Fiesta) may net a lower profit, which is why Ford is always having "Truck month" (which really lasts a full quarter) or some other clearance sales pitch.
Its a very interesting industry, it was filled with all sorts of gotchas and nepotism and waaay too many moving parts that just make the entire process convoluted and therefore expensive.
Example, towards the end of my Visteon days, we had a very, very large project. The project was scheduled to take a year and 15M USD. We did it in 9 months and under 10M.
The divisional president for Latin American operations took all his goons (this was during the SUV heyday in the mid 00s) to celebrate. He expensed out $25K in hookers and food. All paid for by the company.
This kind of excess is why the industry failed and had to be bailed out. Another example of it is Wagoner, flying on his private Jet to ask money from Congress.
The whole industry needed to be cleansed and purged.
EDIT: sorry for the long winded post. It was fun and painful to reminisce about it all
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rotorbudd (10-28-2021)
03-29-2017, 02:28 PM
#47
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
BTW, dealers get 150 bucks for each survey that comes with a grade of 96% or above, thats why they always pester you to leave five stars or whatever.
03-29-2017, 02:37 PM
#48
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
DO NOT assume every customer is an idiot either, it goes both ways here. Nothing pisses me off more when I have an issue figured out that is turn key to fix and the service advisor does not even pass the info to the tech and wastes my time by having to bring it back in two more times to get done what was already figured out because the tech's pride got in the way or service advisor rather play the "process" than use common sense.
This board has plenty of threads started with examples of both service advisors and dealership techs ignorant of TSB's and SSM's for things brought in to be fixed and wasting people's time because you did not want to listen to the customer with information in hand you should have known from the get go.
This board has plenty of threads started with examples of both service advisors and dealership techs ignorant of TSB's and SSM's for things brought in to be fixed and wasting people's time because you did not want to listen to the customer with information in hand you should have known from the get go.
If they dont follow it, then they dont get paid. Also, Ford book rates for repairs are really bad (GM is the worst offender). I wouldnt like to say how much they pay, but believe me, the techs pad the clock as much as possible because of how low Ford reimburses for warranty work.
One common gripe is how much they underestimate labor for repairs. Stuff that usually takes 8 hours to repair (as an example) Ford says that it takes 5, and will only pay for 5 hours even if it takes the tech 10. Thats also why they have you take the truck/car/whatever multiple times. Of course Ford calculates the time based in ideal conditions, with every single part and tool available, and without diagnose time.
OASIS for example takes 10 minutes just to get security clearance, and resets after 50 mins. So every hour of work is really only 50 mins, and Ford pays by the hour.
Now you know...
03-29-2017, 02:38 PM
#49
Senior Member
I've been working as an ASE certified technician for my entire adult life. I've also spent some of that time as a service writer, manager, and trainer. Here are a few of my thoughts.
If the problem is common enough for you to read on the internet then it's likely a pattern failure but not necessarily. If indeed it's a pattern failure then the chances are good that I'm already familiar with it. That doesn't mean that I will be skipping steps in my diagnostic procedure. I have no issue with customers who point out what they've learned on the net but at the same time will remain guarded to avoid "going down the rabbit hole" and into an incorrect diagnosis.
The simple fact is that I see A LOT of customers. We tend to remember two types of customers the most. The very nice ones and the pain in the butt ones. I take care of ALL customers regardless but you can guess which ones I form relationships with. A relationship with your service provider is a GREAT thing no matter the service they are providing.
Most importantly, and I can't stress this enough, do not ever assume or act like you know more than your mechanic. This person has dedicated his/her life to doing their job, and it's a difficult job. Are there bad mechanics? Yes. Are there uneducated mechanics? Yes. Are you going to run across a mechanic whom you MIGHT know more than? Maybe. But regardless, it is an insult to treat them as anything less than a professional and will get you nowhere. And keep this in mind. I of course have seen bad mechanics come and go. Mechanics who know nothing. Even still, it was a coworker and I would stand behind them. (And sometimes fix their mistakes.)
If the problem is common enough for you to read on the internet then it's likely a pattern failure but not necessarily. If indeed it's a pattern failure then the chances are good that I'm already familiar with it. That doesn't mean that I will be skipping steps in my diagnostic procedure. I have no issue with customers who point out what they've learned on the net but at the same time will remain guarded to avoid "going down the rabbit hole" and into an incorrect diagnosis.
The simple fact is that I see A LOT of customers. We tend to remember two types of customers the most. The very nice ones and the pain in the butt ones. I take care of ALL customers regardless but you can guess which ones I form relationships with. A relationship with your service provider is a GREAT thing no matter the service they are providing.
Most importantly, and I can't stress this enough, do not ever assume or act like you know more than your mechanic. This person has dedicated his/her life to doing their job, and it's a difficult job. Are there bad mechanics? Yes. Are there uneducated mechanics? Yes. Are you going to run across a mechanic whom you MIGHT know more than? Maybe. But regardless, it is an insult to treat them as anything less than a professional and will get you nowhere. And keep this in mind. I of course have seen bad mechanics come and go. Mechanics who know nothing. Even still, it was a coworker and I would stand behind them. (And sometimes fix their mistakes.)
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digitaltrucker (03-29-2017)
03-29-2017, 02:45 PM
#50
Senior Member
And to OP, retaliation for my attitude? Thanks for cementing my opinion of my local FORD service facility. Accusing people of being arrogant ****** while being an arrogant ***** is comedy gold.