EB and CEL
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The OP has not offered the code so we have to doubt the cause of the CEL, until then.
3.5, 5L does not make a difference. They are both Gas engines.
The OBDII Doc does not make a distinction between engine families.
I will not debate with you.
3.5, 5L does not make a difference. They are both Gas engines.
The OBDII Doc does not make a distinction between engine families.
I will not debate with you.
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From: MO
Edit: Here's the gas cap from my 2015.
It clearly says E0-E15. Not flex fuel compatible. Another potential issue on the DI-only 3.5 eco is fuel pump capacity; it may not be able to flow enough E85 at high demand to keep the engine safe.
Last edited by BadAV; Mar 9, 2023 at 09:52 AM.
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2019 Owner Manual, page 191 bottom left column, last line.
The engine will accept UP TO E85.
I run E85 in my 2018 5 L without any issue but less fuel mileage, as expected. There are no makings or stickers anywhere on my vehicle.
The factory info, various places, are at odds with each other and need to be rewritten to make this clear.
This is why the Manual has two or more re-writes when bringing up on mfger website for manuals. Everything is not always correct. The technical writers don't always understand or catch everything.
A VIN expansion for the vehicle will also indicate FF capable as it does for my 2018 5L.
Further, the Ford Doc. OBDII Over View for gas engines, the section on Flex Fuel also tells you all are all FF capable.
The vehicles do not have a Specific Sensor for Flex Fuel in the fuel line but an advanced Ox Air/Fuel Ratio front sensor for each bank that detects the extra Oxygen content in the Exhaust gas due to the higher Eth content. They are wide band sensors.
The signal back to the PCM causes a set of calculations that comes up with an "inferred" value and shifts the Long Term Fuel tables richer to reflect the extra E in the fuel that takes place over time. Very clever, those software engineers are.!
E Fueling change is not instantaneous.
It takes some drive time for all these calculations to complete [and stabilize] once the fuel change is made. This is also described in the OBDII Doc. section on FF.
I have looked at my LTFT and see the shift to about 12% rich that proves what happens.
I am in the process of coming back to E15 88 and check of the fuel tables will come back toward Zero where they were before the trial started.
Sorry, but these things are not as simple as most think. There is more to it than what you see being "commonly said".
Good luck.
The engine will accept UP TO E85.
I run E85 in my 2018 5 L without any issue but less fuel mileage, as expected. There are no makings or stickers anywhere on my vehicle.
The factory info, various places, are at odds with each other and need to be rewritten to make this clear.
This is why the Manual has two or more re-writes when bringing up on mfger website for manuals. Everything is not always correct. The technical writers don't always understand or catch everything.
A VIN expansion for the vehicle will also indicate FF capable as it does for my 2018 5L.
Further, the Ford Doc. OBDII Over View for gas engines, the section on Flex Fuel also tells you all are all FF capable.
The vehicles do not have a Specific Sensor for Flex Fuel in the fuel line but an advanced Ox Air/Fuel Ratio front sensor for each bank that detects the extra Oxygen content in the Exhaust gas due to the higher Eth content. They are wide band sensors.
The signal back to the PCM causes a set of calculations that comes up with an "inferred" value and shifts the Long Term Fuel tables richer to reflect the extra E in the fuel that takes place over time. Very clever, those software engineers are.!
E Fueling change is not instantaneous.
It takes some drive time for all these calculations to complete [and stabilize] once the fuel change is made. This is also described in the OBDII Doc. section on FF.
I have looked at my LTFT and see the shift to about 12% rich that proves what happens.
I am in the process of coming back to E15 88 and check of the fuel tables will come back toward Zero where they were before the trial started.
Sorry, but these things are not as simple as most think. There is more to it than what you see being "commonly said".
Good luck.
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From: Los Angeles and Lake Tahoe
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Your understanding is now in error because the sensor you speak of has been eliminated long ago.
It gave references to what I post in my replies but everyone chooses to ignore the facts go along with old sources and keep repeating them.
Look then up and not spread miss information.
The fuel mix is detected by the Ox Sensor being wide band and that signal is processed by the a PCM software that is able to detect the extra Oxygen in the exhaust.
ALL the engines from at least 2015 on use the same basic software to do that no matter if an ECO v6 of 5 l v8, the same is done for the fuel coming out of the tank.
Turbos hanging on does not change this process as the same fuel flows to combustion and out the exhaust and detected in the same way and process.
I referred to the 2019 Manual and specific page, left column at the bottom but as usual someone will keep trying to post something different out of a different manual for a different year that says something different.
The Manuals have errors in them when referenced to other Ford Docs that are accurate. That Doc is the OBDII for each year and includes GAS, ENGINES SPECIFICALLY.
The description for fuel use is in each one.
Please don't keep coming back with what the Owner manuals say that are misleading.
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Would you care to post this mysterious and enlightening document that proves all of our owners manuals and vehicle labeling wrong? How would a 1st gen (pre-17) 3.5L with no port injection compensate for the ~30% more fuel needed for E85 when the HPFP is sized exactly to the stock power output? Are you implying that it's totally fine for a modern, relatively high compression turbo engine to run lean (the #1 killer of pistons after too much timing) for a bit while the computer adjusts long term fuel trims?
5 Year Member
Joined: Dec 2017
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From: Los Angeles and Lake Tahoe
.
I referred to the 2019 Manual and specific page, left column at the bottom but as usual someone will keep trying to post something different out of a different manual for a different year that says something different.
Please don't keep coming back with what the Owner manuals say that are misleading.
I referred to the 2019 Manual and specific page, left column at the bottom but as usual someone will keep trying to post something different out of a different manual for a different year that says something different.
Please don't keep coming back with what the Owner manuals say that are misleading.
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1. Next time, please post the full OBD code. Oxygen sensor is vague and there are numerous codes that could point to an oxygen sensor.
2. The 3.5 ecoboost is not E85 compatible. What does your fuel filler area say?
2. The 3.5 ecoboost is not E85 compatible. What does your fuel filler area say?
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 393
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From: Florida
There is a difference between the capabilities of the 5.0 and 3.5EB. You may not want to agree, or debate this, but it is true. The manual does have sections about fuel quality and the page for E85 does say not to use higher than E85 like you said. BUT, that is only for an engine that is designed to use E85 - the 5.0. The very next page says not to exceed 15% ethanol - that is for the 3.5EB.
Last edited by ricksf150; Mar 9, 2023 at 04:58 PM.