Active Shutters
07-25-2017, 07:34 PM
#71
Senior Member
That being said, If someone had a mag mount and a gopro that would be really cool to see how and when and under what conditions they actually open and close.
Its tech that's been in tractor trailers for a long time now, but depending on who you ask its for aerodynamics making a "Pillow" of air in front of it, or its for coolant temp management. In some heavy trucks, they are geared to keep the engine warmer or cooler depending on load, trying to keep it at some magic number the engineers say is most efficient.
But this is a pickup.
Its tech that's been in tractor trailers for a long time now, but depending on who you ask its for aerodynamics making a "Pillow" of air in front of it, or its for coolant temp management. In some heavy trucks, they are geared to keep the engine warmer or cooler depending on load, trying to keep it at some magic number the engineers say is most efficient.
But this is a pickup.
07-25-2017, 07:34 PM
#72
Here's a piece of a conversation about the 6R80 & trans temps from a VERY connected person......
Yeah, that was true about 50 years ago. Modern ATF is *MUCH* more robust than that. You can run the trans as high as 220°F and the fluid SHOULD last 150,000. It is just something I know from a source that isn't available to you and I won't share it.
Transmission temperatures have been rising in recent years. There are less losses through the transmission with a hotter transmission, so the trans is operated hotter to improve fuel economy. ATFs have also been improved so that they will last at higher temperatures. That doesn't mean they will, it just means they should. Running this trans at a cooler than spec'd temp will have ZERO I'll effects.
Yeah, that was true about 50 years ago. Modern ATF is *MUCH* more robust than that. You can run the trans as high as 220°F and the fluid SHOULD last 150,000. It is just something I know from a source that isn't available to you and I won't share it.
Transmission temperatures have been rising in recent years. There are less losses through the transmission with a hotter transmission, so the trans is operated hotter to improve fuel economy. ATFs have also been improved so that they will last at higher temperatures. That doesn't mean they will, it just means they should. Running this trans at a cooler than spec'd temp will have ZERO I'll effects.
07-25-2017, 08:24 PM
#73
That being said, If someone had a mag mount and a gopro that would be really cool to see how and when and under what conditions they actually open and close.
Its tech that's been in tractor trailers for a long time now, but depending on who you ask its for aerodynamics making a "Pillow" of air in front of it, or its for coolant temp management. In some heavy trucks, they are geared to keep the engine warmer or cooler depending on load, trying to keep it at some magic number the engineers say is most efficient.
But this is a pickup.
Its tech that's been in tractor trailers for a long time now, but depending on who you ask its for aerodynamics making a "Pillow" of air in front of it, or its for coolant temp management. In some heavy trucks, they are geared to keep the engine warmer or cooler depending on load, trying to keep it at some magic number the engineers say is most efficient.
But this is a pickup.
07-25-2017, 08:30 PM
#74
Senior Member
^ Uuup. Yeah, my bad, had to re-read it. Interesting results.. Looks to me like yup.. Chasing the allmighty mpg.. I guess time will tell if +1mpg is better in the long run then the higher temps.
07-25-2017, 11:10 PM
#75
Every manufacturer spends considerable time and money researching thermal management. This is one of the reasons Ford switched to electric cooling fans in the F-150 and added grill shutters. More precise control of thermal management. The quicker fluids and emissions equipment warms up the more efficient they operate. You must also consider the manufacturing tolerances in your engine and transmission. Tight tolerances leave little room for fluid to flow. This is one of the reasons fluids are getting thinner not just for CAFE regulations. Cold thick fluids can't flow as well.
Transmission fluid in our trucks is managed precisely by the computer. Mercon LV thins and expands considerably as it gets hot. It does not provide full protection and lubrication until it reaches normal operating temperature. Colder fluid will cause increased transmission wear. You will find that it runs at higher temperature in colder weather. My truck runs 190-200 in the summer but 200-210 in the winter.
This is why there is a thermostat built into the transmission and all 5.0 engines use a transmission fluid warmer (all powertrains will have it for 2018). In the 5.0 cold transmission fluid flows to the warmer then back the transmission. When it gets warm enough the computer closes a valve to the warmer and fluid circulates within the transmission. When temperature starts getting to high the computer opens a valve so fluid can flow to the cooler. If ambient and coolant are below a certain temp the computer closes the grill shutters so they can warm quicker. In really cold temperature it will leave the shutters closed or partially opened and use the fans to control temperature. The computer has 16 different positions it can put the shutters in for thermal management. It can also anticipate an overheat condition before it occurs. For example, if the computer sees coolant temp is rising despite its commands for maximum cooling it will give you a overheat warning before an overheat condition. Also why the fans run on high speed full time if your engine coolant is low. It will also run the fans when the engine is off if the engine is overheating.
You may find that without the shutters in cold weather the computer will request a check engine light because oil, coolant, and transmission fluids are not getting up to operating temperature fast enough. The computer will see this a malfunction of the cooling system. The grill shutters are an integral part of the trucks thermal management system. It's programmed to use them for everything from engine cooling to HVAC. Those systems were not designed for use without the shutters.
Transmission fluid in our trucks is managed precisely by the computer. Mercon LV thins and expands considerably as it gets hot. It does not provide full protection and lubrication until it reaches normal operating temperature. Colder fluid will cause increased transmission wear. You will find that it runs at higher temperature in colder weather. My truck runs 190-200 in the summer but 200-210 in the winter.
This is why there is a thermostat built into the transmission and all 5.0 engines use a transmission fluid warmer (all powertrains will have it for 2018). In the 5.0 cold transmission fluid flows to the warmer then back the transmission. When it gets warm enough the computer closes a valve to the warmer and fluid circulates within the transmission. When temperature starts getting to high the computer opens a valve so fluid can flow to the cooler. If ambient and coolant are below a certain temp the computer closes the grill shutters so they can warm quicker. In really cold temperature it will leave the shutters closed or partially opened and use the fans to control temperature. The computer has 16 different positions it can put the shutters in for thermal management. It can also anticipate an overheat condition before it occurs. For example, if the computer sees coolant temp is rising despite its commands for maximum cooling it will give you a overheat warning before an overheat condition. Also why the fans run on high speed full time if your engine coolant is low. It will also run the fans when the engine is off if the engine is overheating.
You may find that without the shutters in cold weather the computer will request a check engine light because oil, coolant, and transmission fluids are not getting up to operating temperature fast enough. The computer will see this a malfunction of the cooling system. The grill shutters are an integral part of the trucks thermal management system. It's programmed to use them for everything from engine cooling to HVAC. Those systems were not designed for use without the shutters.
Last edited by RL1990; 07-25-2017 at 11:55 PM.
07-26-2017, 12:17 AM
#76
Senior Member
At 109 degrees outside, my thermal management system opens the shutters to max and sets the fans to extra loud!! I can hear the wife coming before she turns the corner on our street. The electric fans on my 2010 were about half as loud. The one thing I do not worry about on this truck is the cooling.
07-26-2017, 01:22 AM
#77
Senior Member
I wrote a long post and decided better of it.
The OP feels better about the lower temps he's achieved, with no scientific evidence of it actually being any better by any metric other than cooler is better. I guess that's fine.
The flip side is complaints about the higher engine temps, higher pressure radiator, and higher transmission temps in these trucks. Hate to say it, but these trucks are some of the later arrivals to that party...
I was the owner of an engine that ran at 210 all day long on a perfect cooling system... in 1988 - by design. Saying 210 is too hot because its hotter than I'm used to is funny... Is it hotter than previous F150 engines ran? Yes. New, no.
I've owned vehicles with 20 psi radiator caps before - even in a Ford with the 4.6 3V in an '07 Explorer - that started 9 years before the current generation of F150 came out. Not new...
Ditto the transmission temps. My '07 Explorer has the same transmission in it as this generation of F150's (minus the new 10 speed). They showed up in the Explorer 3 years before they made it in the '09 F150. They've been running the 200+ degree normal running temp the whole time. And all in all have proven themselves to be a good unit at these temps that some are uncomfortable with because its different than it used to be... Again, nothing new here either.
And if you believe your shutters are full closed when the engine is at full temp, you may want to look a lot closer at your go pro videos. They are cracked open - since that's all they need to be at speed. You can monitor via torque or other apps - you'll see they are not full closed.
The OP feels better about the lower temps he's achieved, with no scientific evidence of it actually being any better by any metric other than cooler is better. I guess that's fine.
The flip side is complaints about the higher engine temps, higher pressure radiator, and higher transmission temps in these trucks. Hate to say it, but these trucks are some of the later arrivals to that party...
I was the owner of an engine that ran at 210 all day long on a perfect cooling system... in 1988 - by design. Saying 210 is too hot because its hotter than I'm used to is funny... Is it hotter than previous F150 engines ran? Yes. New, no.
I've owned vehicles with 20 psi radiator caps before - even in a Ford with the 4.6 3V in an '07 Explorer - that started 9 years before the current generation of F150 came out. Not new...
Ditto the transmission temps. My '07 Explorer has the same transmission in it as this generation of F150's (minus the new 10 speed). They showed up in the Explorer 3 years before they made it in the '09 F150. They've been running the 200+ degree normal running temp the whole time. And all in all have proven themselves to be a good unit at these temps that some are uncomfortable with because its different than it used to be... Again, nothing new here either.
And if you believe your shutters are full closed when the engine is at full temp, you may want to look a lot closer at your go pro videos. They are cracked open - since that's all they need to be at speed. You can monitor via torque or other apps - you'll see they are not full closed.
Last edited by MNgopher; 07-26-2017 at 01:39 AM.
07-26-2017, 07:40 AM
#78
My 2017 with a 3.5na, the transmission runs around 206 on the highway regardless of the outside temperatures. This is unloaded flat ground. I have no auxiliary transmission cooler. When in the mountains towing a small trailer on a hot day or when in 4x4 on the farm crawling around slow it will get as high as 226. My Ford Dealership said this is totally normal. I have a lifetime powertrain warranty and I am sure they would be more concerned if they deemed it "out of spec".
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Marklite (07-27-2017)
07-26-2017, 08:04 AM
#79
Just a gearhead
If that is your question then you don't understand the subject at hand.
When the ford engineers give conflicting data and sacrifice engine/trans protection (long term durability) for fuel economy and the owner only cares about long term reliability (thinking 150K miles down the line) I'd say he's in a better position to make that call since he doesn't have to worry about bean counters and tyrannical government regulations that choke the life out of businesses forcing them to do STUPID things like thin out oil for .05 mpg increases.
When the ford engineers give conflicting data and sacrifice engine/trans protection (long term durability) for fuel economy and the owner only cares about long term reliability (thinking 150K miles down the line) I'd say he's in a better position to make that call since he doesn't have to worry about bean counters and tyrannical government regulations that choke the life out of businesses forcing them to do STUPID things like thin out oil for .05 mpg increases.
07-26-2017, 09:23 AM
#80
Senior Member
If that is your question then you don't understand the subject at hand.
When the ford engineers give conflicting data and sacrifice engine/trans protection (long term durability) for fuel economy and the owner only cares about long term reliability (thinking 150K miles down the line) I'd say he's in a better position to make that call since he doesn't have to worry about bean counters and tyrannical government regulations that choke the life out of businesses forcing them to do STUPID things like thin out oil for .05 mpg increases.
When the ford engineers give conflicting data and sacrifice engine/trans protection (long term durability) for fuel economy and the owner only cares about long term reliability (thinking 150K miles down the line) I'd say he's in a better position to make that call since he doesn't have to worry about bean counters and tyrannical government regulations that choke the life out of businesses forcing them to do STUPID things like thin out oil for .05 mpg increases.