elptxjc

Hey guys, since many of us have nothing better to do than kill some time (ha ha), I just wanted to start a new thread of how to try to avoid the dreaded cam phaser issue... if we can. So let's start with the facts. And so far we have two:
1. We all know there's an inherent design problem with the cam phasers, since too many are failing, and they can also fail multiple times. Having said that, other engines can last for a long time without any issues, and the failure mileages are all over the place, from early teens to 6 figures.
2. This is the only failure fact we have, courtesy of a tech replacing one on a Raptor (on Youtube): The part that breaks is a hard plastic pin inside the phasers.

Now, many of us were wrongly thinking it was just an oil issue, meaning wrong viscosity, using cheap oil, and most importantly, not doing frequent enough oil changes. But after a myriad of afflicted owners reported doing 5K OCIs with full synthetic oils, that reasoning went out the window. So what else could be at play? I think I have the answer to that, but it will trigger more questions. And who made me think about that was MDXLT, who just said on a related thread (where I expanded on that), that 'driving style' might be a factor. So let's get deeper into that, to finally come up with some potential answers to minimize this crap .

We already know what causes the cam phaser isues: hard plastic pin (inside a metal sleeve) failure, as you can see on the video below. I also posted another video of how the BorgWarner cam phasers work, in case it wasn't clear from the first video. So the immediate question that follows is this: Which driving conditions cause the greatest loads on those pins? If we avoid those conditions, we could extend, or even eliminate, the problem altogether folks . But first, we need to know those conditions, right? Is there a modern engine expert who knows for a fact what causes the greatest loads on those pins? My educated guess is lugging the engine, meaning heavy loads at low rpm. If it turns out to be the case, just avoiding that scenario (which is bad for the entire engine anyway), we could eliminate the problem. Or at least, not repeat it, for those with it already. Se let's get some answers.

But as a final thought, I'm already doing everything I can to prevent this issue. I switched to Mobil1 0/30 (with OEM filter) on the first oil change at 3K miles (better/quicker lubrication on cold starts), and have changed it every 5K miles, with the last one just done at 13K miles. And I always drive in sport mode, and have rarely lugged the engine, always driving with 10th locked out, and many times 9th, and even 8th. I hardly ever run the engine like a diesel, meaning below 2K rpm. And on the highways, I always locked out 9th on slight inclines, since the engine feels a bit strained at 2K rpm at that speed, to bring it up to around 2,300 rpm. Instant fuel economy goes a hair up, and boost down. And yes, with boost, we're obviously loading the engine, but at higher rpm, the cam phasers should have less load, but that's what I want to find out too .

16IngotFX4

Quality oil and oil change intervals that are not excessive. Synthetic if you can swing it.

GMC to Ford

I do not follow the logic of switching to Mobil 1 0w30 to prevent the issue and provide better lubrication on startup. From Mobil 1 website using the comparison tool:

Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 Kinematic Viscosity at 40C = 63 (Rated four circles for turbo protection in comparison tool)
Mobil 1 0w30 Advanced Fuel Economy Kinematic Viscosity at 40C = 62.9 (Rated two circles for turbo protection in comparison tool)
Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 ESP Kinetic Viscosity at 40C = 61 (Rated four circles for turbo protection in comparison tool)
Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance (EP) Kinematic Viscosity = 59.8 (Rated 3 circles for turbo protection)
Motorcraft Syn Blend 5w30 Kinematic Viscosity = 66.8 at 40C

So, the Mobil 1 5w30 has "slightly" better cold start viscosity than Mobil 1 0w30. I am not knocking your choice of oil or viscosity just stating that a 0w30 does not necessarily equate to better cold start performance than 5w30. My intent is not to derail with another oil thread just pointing out a "fact" from the oil manufacturers website. It would take an independent lab testing every major oil brand to truly determine performance at lower temperatures since the testing standards only cover 40 & 100C. One point worth noting from Mobil 1's website: Mobil 1 0w30 ESP and 5w30 offer better turbo protection than Mobil 1 0w30 Advanced Fuel Economy, which I assume would apply to any area of the engine subject to higher shear stresses. I guess my point is that I seriously doubt oil plays a major factor in the failures.

Harry Franklin

I believe the VCT actuator pin is only locked at cold start when there is a lack of oil to control the actuator. I don't believe driving style will relate to the failure in any way. This would also explain why the failure only seems to affect cold starts.

Bluewoo

Cheap oil filters too that allow drain back so its almost like starting up from a fresh oil change. I only use Motorcraft and @ 24k Its still quite at start up but my (they think) HPFP is tick tick tick when warmed up.

elptxjc

Your statements make sense, brother. But don't honestly think it's the only thing at play, since how could you explain the wide range of mileages on affected engines? But it definitely makes sense to me. Based on that assessment, it seems crucial to me to use 0/30 vs 5/30, for oil to lubricate the cam phasers quicker. How much does that help is up for debate, but I'm being the perfect guinea pig for that, since I started since the first oil change. Finally, if the issue occurs at start-up, what exactly is breaking the pin? THAT I don't get. Any ideas?

All you posted is useless for cold starts man, since my garage is never at 104F (40C). And by cold start, I mean the first start of the day regardless of ambient temperature (from really cold to warm), which for my typically range from 40F to 90F. Thinner oil when engine is cold is ALWAYS better at start up, so no need to argue the obvious. If you want to stick to 5/30, it's perfectly fine, but I prefer better cold start protection, since that's when the great majority of engine wear occurs. Since I change the oil religiously at 5K max, never abuse or work the truck hard, and about 90% of my mileage is highway, not worried at all using M1 0/30. Finally, if what Harry said is true (see quote above), 0/30 is our best weapon to fight cold-start lack of lubrication IMO .

elptxjc

Your quote didn't load. Sorry about missing it above. You're absolutely correct about suggesting that, but unfortunately, it doesn't eliminate the cam phaser issue. However, it's ALWAYS better for the entire engine to do that, so I do it anyway . You didn't mention oil filter, but I always use OEM, since for sure it has the correct pressure for the relief valve (nobody knows what it is, so hard to buy something comparable). And when your engine is prone to issues, the more reason to stick with that. And it's dirt cheap, so no reason not to buy it IMO . I use 5K OCIs with M1 0/30. No need for any better oil when replaced at 5K miles IMO, and it's also cheaper at less than $40 at Walmart all included, so great protection at a very reasonable price.

lawndart

There was a video posted here.....it was of a raptor but still gen2. The mechanic was holding the vct and showed what the design issues were. The problem isn't oil related.

My truck is going in soon. All of the fanboys in denial need to realize Ford equipped hundreds of thousands of these trucks (if not a million) with flawed phasers before landing on a solution after several iterations.

GetWired

I've been running full synthetic with a Motorcraft filter changed every 5000 since day one. I developed this issue at about 75,000 miles. The only related thing was a long road trip which was about 800 miles in a day. Noise started just after that trip. Not towing anything, no mountains or anything that worked the engine harder than normal. Previously been on plenty of road trips father then that one with no issue. I'm not sure there's a way to find out if driving styles effect this issue at all. I'm in and out of sport mode quite often but will use normal mode on long highway trips. I think a good maintenance schedule is important but won't prevent defects in manufacturing and design from showing up eventually. I'm just hoping the repair doesn't cause more issues then it fixes.

Killav-TT

I just had SSM 48445 performed at my local dealer. I changed my oil at the 2,500 mile mark, 5k miles, and then 5k miles thereafter like clock work. My truck started ticking during idle at just over 5k miles. Dealer has changed the oil since new with semi-synthetic and motorcraft filters. I did the first oil change at 2,500 miles and used the same Motorcraft semi-synthetic 5-30 that I assume the dealer uses and a motorcraft filter.

It didn't start rattling at start up until about 20k miles. There was no driving style that I was going to perform to prevent this. In my opinion, ALL OF THEM up until they changed the cam phaser design (supposedly build dates AFTER July of 2018), will eventually do it. It doesn't matter what you do. My truck has a build date of November of 2017 (2018 model).
My truck had developed a really loud tick, especially on the passenger bank. If you look at the technician comments, he stated "TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER ON BAK TWO BLEW APART AS IT WAS REMOVED".

I can only assume that the very loud ticking I had early on was a result of the failing secondary timing chain tensioner, and then at 20k, the start-up rattle started, from the defective cam phasers.

The truck sounds like it should now. No start up rattle, and no ticking except for the faint injector tick at idle.
I let it sit for a few days after I got it back, because I was still borrowing a loaner truck from my company. After a three day soak, I fired it up with remote start, and it sounded just fine.

I wanted to note (because some eagle eye will notice the mileage in/out on the service ticket) that I took the truck in at first to get my dash pad replaced. Mine was warped bad. (this dash repair came out perfect, no scratches or rattles/squeaks) I left it there for a few days before they could get to it and approve this SSM for the dash. I got approved, and came and picked up the truck while they ordered the dash. I dropped it back off, after weeks of waiting for the dash, and then I just decided to leave it there until they could diagnose my ticking and start-up rattle. It took exactly six weeks to the day to get the dash replaced, get the rattle diagnosed, and then get the rattle fixed. That is why the mileage spread is so wide, but I was the one putting the miles on the truck not them while waiting on the dash because they never closed out the ticket I guess.