2016 F150 5.0L Code P2006 "Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Closed Bank 1"
10-08-2022, 10:14 PM
#51
Official code descriptions:
2005 and 2007 are both bank 2, the driver side.
2005 can be mechanical or electrical for stuck open.
2007 is for stuck closed and electrical.
Notice the difference between the two codes?
Now what is the cause? When you get it off?
You have to be sure of what the issue is by verifying for repair or use a new manifold with all the new parts in place because there may be an internal issue you can't get to.
The rubber ring gaskets set into grooves in the heads for sealing.
Take care setting the intake back in place.
2005 and 2007 are both bank 2, the driver side.
2005 can be mechanical or electrical for stuck open.
2007 is for stuck closed and electrical.
Notice the difference between the two codes?
Now what is the cause? When you get it off?
You have to be sure of what the issue is by verifying for repair or use a new manifold with all the new parts in place because there may be an internal issue you can't get to.
The rubber ring gaskets set into grooves in the heads for sealing.
Take care setting the intake back in place.
Last edited by Bluegrass; 10-08-2022 at 10:17 PM.
10-11-2022, 09:20 PM
#52
Senior Member
Intake Manifold Runner Control Codes P2005 and P2007
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I watched the following YouTube video
The mechanic broke down the operations of the intake manifold runner. From what I have gathered from the video the runner is spring loaded. The "runner" is an elaborate butterfly valve (from the carburetor days) that regulates the airflow into the engine. If the runner is stuck closed the engine is still getting air, but less? The video explains that the runner is normally closed by the spring action and it takes vacuum at around 3800 RPM to operate the runner. By learning that the runner opens at 3800 RPM this tells me that the air traveling through the runner is only one source of air flow to the engine. I assume there is another path which is open all the time. The path that is controlled by the "runner" associated with the intake manifold is a source of additional air being provided to the combustion of fuel at 3800+ RPMs. Please correct me if I am wrong. When one gets a P2007 code,"runner stuck closed" can mean a few things. One possible issue is that the sensor is not working. There is a sensor positioned in such a way to tell whether the vacuum solenoid is in a particular position. If that electrical signal is lost a code is produced, e.g., P2007, alerting you to issues. If the vacuum solenoid's diaphragm tears and cannot hold vacuum the position sensor will trigger a "stuck closed" code P2007. So the P2007 can be a sensor issue (electrical), it can be a broken vacuum line (mechanical), a broken vacuum solenoid diaphragm issue (mechanical), some mechanical issue with the physical operation of the runner itself (probably the least likely). In general, the term for this system that tweaks the airflow into the engine in its effort to run the vehicle optimally is called the IMRC (intake manifold runner control). The IMRC is a technological advance in providing the perfect amount of air to the engine at higher RPMs. I have read that you can remove the IMRC system and fix the runner to be open wide all the time. Reprogramming the computer would be necessary to cancel the runner "trouble" codes though.
How the sensor works is the computer will send a control command to the IMRC to, say open, the path. If the sensor is sensing the runner to be closed after sending an "open runner" command you will get a code P2007 (stuck closed). The computer males sure, through the sensor signal, that the runner is obeying each command. If the command from the computer is to close the runner and the sensor senses that the runner is still open, it will throw a P2005 code (runner stuck open). I would image if would be very hard to get a permanent P2005 code because when the IMRC system malfunctions it loses vacuum which will result in the runner being stuck closed. When the vacuum solenoid goes bad it never produces vacuum all the time? So, at best the P2005 code will be intermittent and not constant. Basically, when the command and the state of the runner as monitored by the sensor conflicts a trouble code is generated. I assume if the electrical wire associated with the sensor is cut the computer will recognize this as a fault and throw a code. If the sensor operates on a 5V signal, for example, if the runner is open the sensor will send a 5 Volt signal to the computer and if the runner is closed the sensor will send a 0 volt signal to the computer? This I am not sure about. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this is true I am curious to how the computer distinguishes between the sensor sending the computer a 0 Volt signal (runner closed) and the signal sent when the sensor wire is cut. I would image that the computer will only produce two signals P2005 (stuck open) or P2007 (stuck closed) and not be listening for a third signal of an open circuit (i.e., broken wire). Getting back to basics, the P2005 and P2007 codes are strictly associated with Bank 2 (driver side as one looks into the engine compartment).
One basic question I have is when, let's say, the vacuum solenoid diaphragm breaks, you cannot buy a vacuum solenoid for the IMRC system. You really have to change out the entire intake manifold? If you have issue with bank 1 ( codes P2004 and P2006) the fix will be the same, changing out the entire intake manifold? Is there a bank 3 and bank 4? I assume bank 1 is airflow for 4 pistons firings and bank 2 are for the other 4 piston firings. I have a 5.0 liter engine by the way, with 8 cylinders. From what I am gathering from learning about the IMRC system is that if you get a P2004 or P2005 or P2006 or P2007 code or any combination you can still drive the vehicle ; however, it will not run optimally at high RPMs. At worst, you will get poor gas mileage? Please pardon me if I got this wrong. I do not want to spread misinformation so those reading this blog look further down for an expert response to my questions.
From what I have gathered from reading about what the P2005 and P2007 codes is that however it shakes out you need a new intake manifold. If the vacuum solenoid that operates the runner breaks you need a new intake manifold. If the sensor fails, you need a new intake manifold. If the spring mechanism that operates the runner breaks you need a new intake manifold. The question I have is if bank 2 IMRC vacuum solenoid that operates bank 2 runner is the problem (assuming that it's diaphragm is still intact) and let's say the vacuum hose became detached or is broken in some way, interrupting vacuum, would this trigger the two codes, P2005 and P2007? I would think that the computer would produce a P2007 code only (stuck closed) if for any reason the vacuum solenoid stopped working. The computer would see that the IMRC system is not responding to commands to operate the runner to open the intake air path which would trigger the P2007 code. The fact that I am also getting the P2005 code tells me my issue is not a broken vacuum solenoid. Now if the sensor stopped operating properly I can see the computer throwing both P2005 and P2007 codes. With a bad sensor I can see the computer asking for the opening or closing of the runner and the sensor providing conflicting status of the runner.
One issue I have seen in this blog is issues with the mechanical linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner. YouTube videos have highlighted this as a common problem with F-150's with the 5.0 liter engine between years 2015-2017. The rod (square cross-section rod) breaks away from the runner. However, I believe this is not my issue since I am getting both P2005 and P2007 codes. If that linkage breaks then I will only be getting P2007 code, stuck closed? Is my logic right here? Once you start getting the P2005 code too you now have a more complex issue because the P2005 code is the computer telling you that it is asking the runner to close and it is remaining open. My code for P2007 has a status as permanent. The P2005 code comes and goes, but not showing up as "permanent." Maybe this P2005 code is a false flag? If the P2005 is a false flag code with no meaning then it still can be something as simple as a broken vacuum line? I want to trouble shoot the problem before I go out and buy a new intake manifold. The problem I foresee is getting into the space between the firewall and the back side of the intake manifold, where the IMRC is located. Can I test the vacuum solenoid is such a tight space?. I saw in one YouTube video a mechanic who was using a engine analyzer that was "bidirectional." He was able to operate the vacuum solenoid on the IMRC at will using his device and then listen to see if it operated. He could not see it operate, only hear it operate. Can I go out and buy this device to test the vacuum solenoid in the IMRC system? If I do hear the solenoid operating the runner I can eliminate an issue with the vacuum solenoid. This would eliminate an issue with the linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner, a common issue. I am not certain I can hear the runner operating though. One mechanic used a hand tool (ice pick like tool where the point is hooked) to open and close the runner even though the space was tight.
In conclusion, getting two codes P2005(assuming this is not a false flag code) and P2007 eliminates an issue with just the linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner. Also, if the diaphragm of the vacuum solenoid was to break I would not get a P2005 code. If the vacuum link broke away from the vacuum solenoid I would just get a P2007 (stuck closed) code. It is looking more like a sensor issue. If it is a sensor issue I would still have to change out the intake manifold? From what I have earned the sensor is an integral part of the IMRC system on the intake manifold and can't be swapped out. Maybe someone can read this explanation and make a suggestion? My F150 is a 2017 Lariat with a 5.0 liter engine. Would it be possible to buy an intake manifold online and avoid the high price I would pay at the dealership? For warranty issues is it better off buying from the dealer and paying the extra cost? I researched a new intake manifold for my E-250 2007 Ford van in the past and learned that not all intake manifolds are created equal. I was thinking maybe that no company, other than Ford, is making intake manifolds for the 2017 F150 because it is too new of a model? I am not sure? The range of prices online to purchase this intake manifold are quiet dramatic so I wanted to make sure I am not buying a cheap one that is made with, e.g., inferior plastic. I usually buy my parts from Rock Auto when possible; however, I cannot find on Rock Auto's pull down menu an intake manifold for the F150 2017 with a 5.0 engine. Is this telling me that some parts on the more recent models are inaccessible to online sellers? Any advice for buying a new intake manifold would be appreciated. If you read this entire thread you deserve a prize. Thanks!
I watched the following YouTube video
How the sensor works is the computer will send a control command to the IMRC to, say open, the path. If the sensor is sensing the runner to be closed after sending an "open runner" command you will get a code P2007 (stuck closed). The computer males sure, through the sensor signal, that the runner is obeying each command. If the command from the computer is to close the runner and the sensor senses that the runner is still open, it will throw a P2005 code (runner stuck open). I would image if would be very hard to get a permanent P2005 code because when the IMRC system malfunctions it loses vacuum which will result in the runner being stuck closed. When the vacuum solenoid goes bad it never produces vacuum all the time? So, at best the P2005 code will be intermittent and not constant. Basically, when the command and the state of the runner as monitored by the sensor conflicts a trouble code is generated. I assume if the electrical wire associated with the sensor is cut the computer will recognize this as a fault and throw a code. If the sensor operates on a 5V signal, for example, if the runner is open the sensor will send a 5 Volt signal to the computer and if the runner is closed the sensor will send a 0 volt signal to the computer? This I am not sure about. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this is true I am curious to how the computer distinguishes between the sensor sending the computer a 0 Volt signal (runner closed) and the signal sent when the sensor wire is cut. I would image that the computer will only produce two signals P2005 (stuck open) or P2007 (stuck closed) and not be listening for a third signal of an open circuit (i.e., broken wire). Getting back to basics, the P2005 and P2007 codes are strictly associated with Bank 2 (driver side as one looks into the engine compartment).
One basic question I have is when, let's say, the vacuum solenoid diaphragm breaks, you cannot buy a vacuum solenoid for the IMRC system. You really have to change out the entire intake manifold? If you have issue with bank 1 ( codes P2004 and P2006) the fix will be the same, changing out the entire intake manifold? Is there a bank 3 and bank 4? I assume bank 1 is airflow for 4 pistons firings and bank 2 are for the other 4 piston firings. I have a 5.0 liter engine by the way, with 8 cylinders. From what I am gathering from learning about the IMRC system is that if you get a P2004 or P2005 or P2006 or P2007 code or any combination you can still drive the vehicle ; however, it will not run optimally at high RPMs. At worst, you will get poor gas mileage? Please pardon me if I got this wrong. I do not want to spread misinformation so those reading this blog look further down for an expert response to my questions.
From what I have gathered from reading about what the P2005 and P2007 codes is that however it shakes out you need a new intake manifold. If the vacuum solenoid that operates the runner breaks you need a new intake manifold. If the sensor fails, you need a new intake manifold. If the spring mechanism that operates the runner breaks you need a new intake manifold. The question I have is if bank 2 IMRC vacuum solenoid that operates bank 2 runner is the problem (assuming that it's diaphragm is still intact) and let's say the vacuum hose became detached or is broken in some way, interrupting vacuum, would this trigger the two codes, P2005 and P2007? I would think that the computer would produce a P2007 code only (stuck closed) if for any reason the vacuum solenoid stopped working. The computer would see that the IMRC system is not responding to commands to operate the runner to open the intake air path which would trigger the P2007 code. The fact that I am also getting the P2005 code tells me my issue is not a broken vacuum solenoid. Now if the sensor stopped operating properly I can see the computer throwing both P2005 and P2007 codes. With a bad sensor I can see the computer asking for the opening or closing of the runner and the sensor providing conflicting status of the runner.
One issue I have seen in this blog is issues with the mechanical linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner. YouTube videos have highlighted this as a common problem with F-150's with the 5.0 liter engine between years 2015-2017. The rod (square cross-section rod) breaks away from the runner. However, I believe this is not my issue since I am getting both P2005 and P2007 codes. If that linkage breaks then I will only be getting P2007 code, stuck closed? Is my logic right here? Once you start getting the P2005 code too you now have a more complex issue because the P2005 code is the computer telling you that it is asking the runner to close and it is remaining open. My code for P2007 has a status as permanent. The P2005 code comes and goes, but not showing up as "permanent." Maybe this P2005 code is a false flag? If the P2005 is a false flag code with no meaning then it still can be something as simple as a broken vacuum line? I want to trouble shoot the problem before I go out and buy a new intake manifold. The problem I foresee is getting into the space between the firewall and the back side of the intake manifold, where the IMRC is located. Can I test the vacuum solenoid is such a tight space?. I saw in one YouTube video a mechanic who was using a engine analyzer that was "bidirectional." He was able to operate the vacuum solenoid on the IMRC at will using his device and then listen to see if it operated. He could not see it operate, only hear it operate. Can I go out and buy this device to test the vacuum solenoid in the IMRC system? If I do hear the solenoid operating the runner I can eliminate an issue with the vacuum solenoid. This would eliminate an issue with the linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner, a common issue. I am not certain I can hear the runner operating though. One mechanic used a hand tool (ice pick like tool where the point is hooked) to open and close the runner even though the space was tight.
In conclusion, getting two codes P2005(assuming this is not a false flag code) and P2007 eliminates an issue with just the linkage between the vacuum solenoid and the runner. Also, if the diaphragm of the vacuum solenoid was to break I would not get a P2005 code. If the vacuum link broke away from the vacuum solenoid I would just get a P2007 (stuck closed) code. It is looking more like a sensor issue. If it is a sensor issue I would still have to change out the intake manifold? From what I have earned the sensor is an integral part of the IMRC system on the intake manifold and can't be swapped out. Maybe someone can read this explanation and make a suggestion? My F150 is a 2017 Lariat with a 5.0 liter engine. Would it be possible to buy an intake manifold online and avoid the high price I would pay at the dealership? For warranty issues is it better off buying from the dealer and paying the extra cost? I researched a new intake manifold for my E-250 2007 Ford van in the past and learned that not all intake manifolds are created equal. I was thinking maybe that no company, other than Ford, is making intake manifolds for the 2017 F150 because it is too new of a model? I am not sure? The range of prices online to purchase this intake manifold are quiet dramatic so I wanted to make sure I am not buying a cheap one that is made with, e.g., inferior plastic. I usually buy my parts from Rock Auto when possible; however, I cannot find on Rock Auto's pull down menu an intake manifold for the F150 2017 with a 5.0 engine. Is this telling me that some parts on the more recent models are inaccessible to online sellers? Any advice for buying a new intake manifold would be appreciated. If you read this entire thread you deserve a prize. Thanks!
08-13-2023, 10:42 AM
#54
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This shows a slightly different problem:
But does the rod really just pull out of the manifold? If so I can repair or manufacture a new rod, say out of stainless?
Last edited by Little-Chicago; 08-13-2023 at 10:45 AM.
08-14-2023, 10:04 AM
#55
Senior Member
The flap has a cutout in one corner for each runner. It's never completely closed off. Generally the end of that rod snaps off. You MIGHT be able to have a new rod machined but if you can pull it out, reinstall and keep it sealed