gone postal

So end the subsidies completely and let the market set the price.

That would also get certain people and companies out of the game in part, because they wouldn't receive the subsidies. (ted Turner, for one).

The demand for corn based ethanol has inflated the price of food corn. The commodities market shows this clearly.

End the shell game. Without government subsidies on the price of Ethanol based fuel (.45-1.10 per gallon depending on the source of the ethanol) we wouldn't even be having this conversation, as no one would pay the same price or higher for a fuel that doesn't deliver the same MPG.

Kattumaram

End the subsidies? Allow free markets to establish the wisdom and viability of ethanol as a motor fuel? Bite your tongue!! Don't you realise that government knows best?

scythefwd

Gone Postal - we disagree, I'll pretty much leave it at that. All the further I'll say on it is that the commodities market isn't purely supply/demand driven. Any amount of speculation can mess with the prices there. Ending the subsidies would create a fair market, and at the same time it would drive a lot of farmers out of the game. I don't know if the commercial farmers could pick up all of the slack, but I do like my meat and veggies to be locally grown/organic so it would effect my stomach a little. I would love to see other alcohols used though. Lets see if we can get methanol (which is easily made from fermenting wood pulp like you would find on a sawmill floor) or something like it going as well. I don't notice any difference in mileage with a10% ethanol/gasoline mix as I do with pure gasoline but that could be for several reasons. Newer cars are designed to tolerate a small percent of ethanol (not run off it, just tolerate it) and I have never owned a vehicle that didn't put up 25+ mpg. I haven't had a chance to even roughly figure my trucks fuel economy yet as I have less than 60 miles total in it. I don't have enough data points to create a trend.

Enjoy

Smagbus

It's not just about mileage.....ethanol and E85 reduce emissions by 30% and new studies done by Yale show upwards of 60% reduction....and this is overall....fertilzer to production to transportation.. it keeps getting better too with all the advancements due to government support.......E85 is about starting to get off oil and natural resources which the supply will end and prices will always go up.....it's also about reducing the harmfull emissions in our atmosphere from years and years of burning oil and coal......mind you it might not mean a thing if China continues like it does....but it won't hurt north america to go a little more green than oil and smog black!

There's more options than just corn too(North America over produces corn, and ends up giving it away to countries that don't even want it(they'd rather be self sufficient). The corn is returned to animals as feed. Nothing is wasted.

Other options for ethanol are sorted municple waste, grasses, crops that don't typically grow well due to bad land, the corn stocks and wastes from other plants......

So sacrifice some milage for saving the environment. Do you want your children to enjoy this world, or enjoy spending +5$/gallon because of the oil dependence?

techrep

iTrader: (1)

I just saw a sign for a new E85 pump...it said E85 is here $2.48 a gal...unleaded was $2.39 a gal...I'm like WTF ??

bobkyle2

wish unleaded was 2.39.... i think when i filled my boat up yesterday it was 2.97,,,premium tho

NorCal-F150

Can an older model be converted to E85? I know it doesn't make sense based on the feedack, but if and when E85 does become the alternative (hoprefully producing better MPG's), I'm wonderin how difficult it would be.

gone postal

If Congress and the eco-weenies were REALLY serious about ending our dependence on foreign oil they'd get the hell out of the way of domestic energy production and just enforce the environmental regs to make sure everything was produced properly. They'd rather reduce the US to an 1800's level of energy consumption than allow efficient production and exploitation of domestic resources.

BTW, I'd really like to see the physics behind burning more of a substance and creating fewer emissions.........TANSTAAFL

False argument. There are other alternatives, they're just not part of the bible of environmentalism (which, frankly, is nothing more than agitprop and obstructionism exercised in the name of doing something and feeling good about it, regardless of the false logic behind it).

dr_bowtie

yes it can....

we do it all the time albeit for different reasons...

as stated you need to change a few things to make it a reliable switch...the fuel lines and pumps and the carb...the needle and seat in the carb wont handle alky without the correct materials...rubber fuel lines swell and collapse

not a big issue but it is if you are not prepped for it...

you will never get the same mpg as gas just isntr going to happen...gas runs at a 14.7:1 AFR while E85 is a 9:1 AFR and alcohol is 4:1 AFR

just that shows you it isnt going to net the same mpg as gas...the thing MOST important about E85 is like Alcohol it is an Oxygenated fuel which means it burns cleaner...thus better for the evironment when used for transportation fuels over other fuels like gas...

we use it for racing...same deal..oxygenated fuel means we can make more power and because the Alky burns colder we no longer have to worry about engines overheating...we can hot lap and no need for cool down periods...thats the bonus for us...

for mpg people...there isnt unless you;re a tree-hugger

scribble912

Ive ran straight e85 for a while now in a few of my vehicles, The funny part is at the pump it says that the minimum amount of ethanol is 70% but with a little garage testing it comes in around 65% never the less. On my civic i'm running EGT's "exhaust gas temp sensors" and e85 runs about 3 to four hundred degrees cooler then regular 93 pump gas. Ethanol does burn slower then pump gas hence the reason you have to compensate for more fuel. The only real big advantage is the octane rating is 105 verses 93 so in a boosted application it is worth the mpg loose to have detonation control. Running a few controlled tests with my Wideband gauge and stock tunes you can run about 30% ethanol to fuel ratio and not have to retune or modify any setting. I have a few friends with factory turbo cars "Saab, EVO8, Talon" which were willing to try this 30% mix out and all three said they could tell a little performance difference probably because factory turbo cars relay on knock or kr sensors to adjust timing and with higher octane it didnt pull timing out. On another note you do not have to worry about fuel system modifications if you want to run e85 on none flex fuel cars, this will not corrode or deteriorate your fuel system at all. the government passed this standard way back in the early 90's that automotive manuf. have to be ethanol compliant. Alright i've talked enough hope this helps. Check this site out it was great help to myself. www.e85mustangs.com/tuning.html