Loving Electric Fans
06-29-2018, 09:07 AM
#11
Senior Member
When installing the fans I did switch the thermostat to a 180 Jet. I've got the fans wired to run with AC on and it has made a world of difference how the truck performs in hot weather.
Dual 14" Derale fans with shroud, Dakota Digital controller and temp sender. Cost a bit more than some other options but both seemed to get good reviews for longevity and quality. A lot of the controllers got reviews for low quality with quick failure.
Dual 14" Derale fans with shroud, Dakota Digital controller and temp sender. Cost a bit more than some other options but both seemed to get good reviews for longevity and quality. A lot of the controllers got reviews for low quality with quick failure.
I had been considering this one:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...hoCA9cQAvD_BwE
It pulls 4600 cfm on only 28 amps, and since I just upgraded from a 95 to 130 amp alternator, that sounds just about perfect to me. It barely ever gets above 90 where I live so it should be plenty. There is someone in the comments who mounted it up to his 94 Lightning and provides pics. Seems to be getting good reviews except for the occasional fan controller failure, which seems to be a thing with controllers, as you mentioned.
06-29-2018, 10:43 AM
#12
Martin
Thread Starter
The Derale I have has the metal shroud and was around $250 maybe even $300. The fans draw 25 amps each. Even though I stagger the fan starts with the controller my 3 year old battery died in short order after install. Fans definitely tax the electrical system.
06-30-2018, 07:49 PM
#13
Hi-Rev Motorsports
I bought the parts to do this mod, just haven't gotten around to it. That should permit the 195° thermostat to insure going into closed loop, & still help the A/C by not running the heater at the same time.
Depends on the engine and ECU calibration. A standard Emissions ECU will go into closed loop around 140 degrees, California Emissions will be somewhere around 175-180 ish. Most of the small blocks and 6 cylinders will follow the rule but a 460 will rarely see closed loop. You ,mostly have to be on even grade, steady throttle for a few miles.... even think about moving the gas pedal or hit an incline and it immediately jumps out of closed loop.
06-30-2018, 08:14 PM
#14
Senior Member
Depends on the engine and ECU calibration. A standard Emissions ECU will go into closed loop around 140 degrees, California Emissions will be somewhere around 175-180 ish. Most of the small blocks and 6 cylinders will follow the rule but a 460 will rarely see closed loop. You ,mostly have to be on even grade, steady throttle for a few miles.... even think about moving the gas pedal or hit an incline and it immediately jumps out of closed loop.
07-01-2018, 07:45 AM
#15
Hi-Rev Motorsports
mileage can be had in open loop as well. Just depends on what the engine wants and how close the Stock mapping is to satisfying that. Fords are better at than mapping than GM in these early years. I've ran my GM 88 TBI in open loop for 20+ years. I just unplugged the O2 and called it a day.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
07-01-2018, 08:45 AM
#16
Senior Member
mileage can be had in open loop as well. Just depends on what the engine wants and how close the Stock mapping is to satisfying that. Fords are better at than mapping than GM in these early years. I've ran my GM 88 TBI in open loop for 20+ years. I just unplugged the O2 and called it a day.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
07-01-2018, 11:09 AM
#17
Senior Member
mileage can be had in open loop as well. Just depends on what the engine wants and how close the Stock mapping is to satisfying that. Fords are better at than mapping than GM in these early years. I've ran my GM 88 TBI in open loop for 20+ years. I just unplugged the O2 and called it a day.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
You should be able to get good mileage out of that 4.9. If you look at some of my old mileage post, I got my 95 4.9 up to 26 mpg on the highway with ALL emissions still intact. City was over 22 mpg. It took a lot of work but the 160 stat was the key as was a hotter spark and MSD box. And Synthetic fluids. I cannot remember what I set the timing at but it was up there. My truck always ran empty so I could run more timing. The more load you haul/pull the less timing you can run without risking hurting the engine.
07-01-2018, 11:41 AM
#18
Martin
Thread Starter
My dad borrowed my commuter car a while back for a 250 mile trip. I consistently average 29 mpg, he got 34, I really didn't think 34 was even possible. Point is some people have a knack with their driving style to get superior mileage.
My fan controller makes you separate the turn on of each fan by 5 degrees, with a 195 thermostat I couldn't figure what the best turn on numbers would be without pushing into the too hot territory. At 205 to 210 my truck starts running bad. The 180 thermostat gives a lot more room for fan set points and runs better overall. Closed loop doesn't seem to be a problem but many new cars drive cycle for OBD2 that I've seen use 75C or 167F as a minimum temp for monitors to start working. The Jet 180 consistently opens at 180, hopefully that thing is the ticket for a quality long lasting thermostat.
My fan controller makes you separate the turn on of each fan by 5 degrees, with a 195 thermostat I couldn't figure what the best turn on numbers would be without pushing into the too hot territory. At 205 to 210 my truck starts running bad. The 180 thermostat gives a lot more room for fan set points and runs better overall. Closed loop doesn't seem to be a problem but many new cars drive cycle for OBD2 that I've seen use 75C or 167F as a minimum temp for monitors to start working. The Jet 180 consistently opens at 180, hopefully that thing is the ticket for a quality long lasting thermostat.
07-01-2018, 11:43 AM
#19
Hi-Rev Motorsports
Eric, You may try to play with the timing. 12 degrees might be too much for you. Another thing is to test the ECT with an Ohms meter and make sure the hot temps correlate. These sensors can be inaccurate and will throw the tune off. There is a chart somewhere that post Ohms to temps conversion. Another thing to try is moving the Intake Air Temp sensor downstream. On the 4.9 they are in the intake close to the head. Moving it to the air tube or filter box may help. I'm pretty sure I moved mine back so it read a bit cooler.
Clint, there are several gas mileage threads on the 4.9L. I know I had one and ymeski had a sticky somewhere for the 6 liter tune-up that worked well.... Lower coolant temps really help with mileage. Good O2 sensor helps as well. Those should be changed once a year or so as the aftermarket arent near as good as factory. I'm a fan of Bosch and Motorcraft on those.. I always say run the coldest T-stat your ECU will let you without popping a light. A good MSD street fighter coil, good 8mm plug wires (I like Taylor Spiro-pro) and synthetic fluids. Most of all E-fans.... dont need to go wild here. I ran 2-14 inch cheap Ebay fans on a cheap controller and I had no issue.... getting rid of the stock clutch fan can be worth up to 3 mpg.... depending.
Clint, there are several gas mileage threads on the 4.9L. I know I had one and ymeski had a sticky somewhere for the 6 liter tune-up that worked well.... Lower coolant temps really help with mileage. Good O2 sensor helps as well. Those should be changed once a year or so as the aftermarket arent near as good as factory. I'm a fan of Bosch and Motorcraft on those.. I always say run the coldest T-stat your ECU will let you without popping a light. A good MSD street fighter coil, good 8mm plug wires (I like Taylor Spiro-pro) and synthetic fluids. Most of all E-fans.... dont need to go wild here. I ran 2-14 inch cheap Ebay fans on a cheap controller and I had no issue.... getting rid of the stock clutch fan can be worth up to 3 mpg.... depending.
The following 2 users liked this post by dr_bowtie:
clintm6 (07-03-2018),
Eric Fullerton (11-09-2018)
11-09-2018, 08:12 AM
#20
Senior Member
Back to the topic of the thread, (Electric Fans) I read on another forum that hydraulic motor driven fans are starting to show up on production vehicles. They run off the power steering pump. That seems to bypass the problems of both the engine mounted and electric Fans. the engine mounted are noisy, and suck up power out of proportion, the electrics really don't have the ***** for heavy towing, and require substantial upgrading of the electrical system to support them, + controller life seems a bit disappointing. Some old news; https://www.just-auto.com/news/valeo...e_id67724.aspx
It would introduce some new problems like hydraulic leaks, but I'm thinking this is a way to go.
On the '96 with MAF, the sensor is mounted at the airbox end, I am thinking of adding a resistor to it to lower the reading & trick it into thinking it is colder than it is, 20° should do it. I doubt the result would be more MPGs, but it should at least keep it in the zone longer, at some point of resistance, it would be all the time.
It would introduce some new problems like hydraulic leaks, but I'm thinking this is a way to go.
Eric, You may try to play with the timing. 12 degrees might be too much for you. Another thing is to test the ECT with an Ohms meter and make sure the hot temps correlate. These sensors can be inaccurate and will throw the tune off. There is a chart somewhere that post Ohms to temps conversion. Another thing to try is moving the Intake Air Temp sensor downstream. On the 4.9 they are in the intake close to the head. Moving it to the air tube or filter box may help. I'm pretty sure I moved mine back so it read a bit cooler.
Last edited by Eric Fullerton; 11-09-2018 at 11:49 AM.