VernDiesel

I don't see it as an "economy play" but you bet they will advertise 30 mpg hwy if they get it. It's primarily for towing economy & to a lesser degree potential longevity for those who use it commercially. Of the small trucks that have made a million miles they have almost all been diesels. It's likely not going to make more torque than the bigger twin turbo EB and while there is overlap it's not a direct competitor to the EB but rather to capture sales lost to the Ram EcoD and to build on that market.

Lots buy a truck to tow not just occasionally but daily or routinely. Some don't need as much truck or power as the 6.7. They don't want to pay for the big truck or the extra fuel either. At least if you are a small business or farmer. In my business example I deliver Airstream travel trailers. They are all small & light enough to be delivered with a diesel half ton. About half are transported this way the other half on semi or 5th wheel trailers. My single biggest expense is fuel. With a gasser I would average about 10 mpg a big diesel 13mpg the lil diesel 15mpg. Other businesses have their own scenario.

So some sales will come from the 6.7 some from the EB but at least they are not lost to competitors. And yes more sales will come from people who were buying from competitors especially the RAM EcoD. At least that's how I see it.

acadianbob

I think you are largely correct Vern. The difference for Ford will be that they will have some credible payload numbers with which to work.

VernDiesel

Absolutely better payload numbers will help. Mostly in people's minds as legalistically reading about it & practically working with it are two different things but whether it's a physical issue or an issue in someone's mind it's an issue for some. My ED is only 1,300 plus 150 for the driver or 1,450. I use a WDH & scale so I'm generally only concerned with axle weights the bias percentage and CVWR combined vehicle weight.

McCarthy. Finally got some time had kind of wanted to do this or a quarter mile pass anyway. So kudos for motivating me. Best of 3 tries was 7.4 and yes I cringe about breaking it. Pulled fuse to get traction control all the way off & put in 4wd. I do have a tow tune. I read about two others that did 7.2 & 7.3 same set up. Either my trucks lost a step (272,000 miles) or I have either way it's still not the 12 second slug you thought.

Velosprout

First, payload does not include a 150 pound driver. Look at your door sticker, and it will say "The Combined Weight of Occupants and Cargo Should Never Exceed...." That means all occupants, and the weight of everything added to the truck since it left the factory. I wish this "150 pound driver" fallacy would fade away.

Secondly, if you have only 1300 pounds payload, and the driver is 150 pounds, then you have only a net 1150 payload. A weight distributing hitch does NOT reduce your limits for the payload. You still have to account for full tongue weight when calculating payload. The weight of the WDH has to be deducted from payload, so if you have a 80 pound weight distributing hitch, you now have 1070 pounds. If you have not added a tonneau cover, bed liner, or put anything in the truck bed or glove box, and no passengers at all that would need to be deducted, you can at max tow something with a 1070 pound hitch weight, which would be for most trailers 8230 pounds maximum (8230 x 13% average tongue weight = 1069 lbs tongue weight). With most any pickup truck, you are going to hit the payload max far before you hit the axle weight limits or GCVW.


It was amazing at the Indianapolis Ford RV & Boat Show yesterday to see the flyers taped on all the towables stating that "this can be pulled with....." Yes, the trailers could be towed with a properly-equipped vehicle as described, but often not within the payload ratings when the whole family and all their belongs are loaded up for travel. One RV salesman told me that the average family only puts about 100 pounds of weight in a camper above the "dry weight". I don't know anyone who packs that light other than backpackers. Make-up bags and shoes can weight that much for those who are married or have teen daughters travelling with us.


Back to diesel discussion.... I think this article for government fleet managers says it all: http://www.government-fleet.com/arti...now-about.aspx While this discusses primarily medium duty trucks, it also discusses 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks and quotes some interesting studies. I am glad that a diesel is coming to F-150's, but I doubt it will get more than 15% of the market.

VernDiesel

It's on their website.
I never suggested a WDH reduces "limits for payload". Nor would I care. What it does is far more important.

I don't care if you change the sticker to 300 pounds or 5,000 pounds it does not dictate what the truck can safely tow.

The safest towing involves using a WDH and a scale to stay within axle ratings, keeping a safe distribution, and staying within GCWR. Naturally you must also still be within receiver and hitch ratings.

The linked article makes a case for how Polk county uses; miles & time frames etc their trucks and over that particular time frame where diesels came into emissions systems where in gassers had already went through that earlier. Look at gasser in the mid 70s Dramatically different as they were terrible at that time.

Velosprout

Correct. Following is the documentation that driver weight is not included in the gross payload amount on the truck, and the driver weight needs to be deducted to calculate net available payload:


https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...load_SB_v5.pdf

Velosprout

Removed; posted on wrong thread.

VernDiesel

The reference was to my truck ie a Ram not a Ford.

Mike Up

There's a lot of misinformation floating around on this forum. A WDH will take some of the tongue weight of a trailer off of the truck's suspension and distribute it to the trailer's axle. At rv.net, through many members weigh tags, it's somewhere averaging around 20% (which already includes the hitches own weight), but completely depends on your truck, trailer, and how the WDH is adjusted. You really need to weigh your rig to know exactly where you stand.

Also when a hitch receiver states 1100 lbs tongue weight for a WDH, it means just that. You are not including the hitches own weight. The receiver already takes that into account with it's different weight bearing ratings and it's weight distribution ratings.

Velosprout

We are talking about payload, Mike. If you have a 1500 pound payload sticker rating in your driver's door frame, you must subtract from that the weight of the driver, passenger, stuff in the glove box, the hula-girl on the dash, any aftermarket accessories, aftermarket wheels or tires, bedliner, and tonneau. If you have a 1500 payload sticker and 700 pounds of people and cargo in the truck and the bed, you only have 800 pounds of payload left that can be attached to the truck receiver. It doesn't matter if your receiver is rated for 1100 pounds or 11.000 pounds, you still only have 800 pounds of capacity left. That includes the weight of the hitch or weight-distributing hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer itself. Look at the excerpt from the 2017 Ford F150 towing guide. The source document is also linked. http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g..._F150_Sep7.pdf