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Old 05-23-2012, 10:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mitch686
whats brings you too that conclusion? a supercharger does the same function as a turbo...
Well for one turbos are for low rpm for pulling and having really good low rpm hp. But supercharges are for high rpm in which you want if your racing in which it sounds like it if your getting a long travel. So they do the same thing but for different purposes
There you go don't get so heated about I'm just trying to help get a cheaper solution than twin turbos
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:45 AM   #32
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Well for one turbos are for low rpm for pulling and having really good low rpm hp. But supercharges are for high rpm in which you want if your racing in which it sounds like it if your getting a long travel. So they do the same thing but for different purposes
There you go don't get so heated about I'm just trying to help get a cheaper solution than twin turbos
You have that completely backwards. Turbos like the ones he is using won't spool on a tiny 5.4L until around 4500rpms. A whipple is instant boost. Turbos for racing supercharger for pulling.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:52 PM   #33
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You are both over-generalizing. Turbos have been used for both towing and top end, as have superchargers. It's all in how the total system is designed - Eco with twins tows like a diesel, GTR with twins hauls the mail but not much else.

Understanding that either method, turbo or supercharger, can be tailored for any number of uses it comes down to benefits and negatives of each based on how it will be used.

Turbos are much better for this type application because:

1) no parasitic power loss means either more power at the same boost or same power at lower boost - which is much better for managing detonation in an off road, all out environment.
2) turbos (and centris for that matter) have the added benefit of a large FMIC which makes managing heat (limiting detonation potential) easier.
3) turbos can be remote mounted to reduce under hood temperatures - again ability to manage heat/detonation potential.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:52 PM   #34
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Unless the cylinders in the block are in bad shape don't bore them, or bore them as little as possible to fit the new forged pistons (that you size accordingly). Boring a block is not a power modification. It's for fixing worn or damaged sleeves. Stroking the engine is where the power increases are made.

When you hear ppl say its bored and stroked, the bored part means squat other than they had to fix or clean up the cylinder walls.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #35
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Unless the cylinders in the block are in bad shape don't bore them, or bore them as little as possible to fit the new forged pistons (that you size accordingly). Boring a block is not a power modification. It's for fixing worn or damaged sleeves. Stroking the engine is where the power increases are made.

When you hear ppl say its bored and stroked, the bored part means squat other than they had to fix or clean up the cylinder walls.
You know nothing about engines apparently. A 5.4L has a huge stroke stock but extremely small bores. Boring it .020 over will really net you nothing in a NA trim but with FI it makes a big difference. Increasing the bore to 3.700 with sleeves will net you more hp and tq then a longer storke both NA and FI. Increasing the stroke on the already extremely long 4.165 will cause the pistons to rock at the top of the cylinder making the cylinder oval shaped over time and decreasing engine life.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:23 PM   #36
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You, are a dumbass.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:07 AM   #37
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You, are a dumbass.
So F1, NASCAR, V8 supercars, all those engine builders are wrong? And you sir, you know more than them? Highly probable.

High horsepower high RPM engines run large bores and small strokes. Keeps the piston speed down, over 72 ft. per second and things start to get all bendy inside. Not a good thing. So hence the large 3-4 inch or so bore of V8 supercars and the less than 2 inch stroke. So they can sing at 7-9k RPM all day and never wear out. If the OP never wants to see some screamin RPM I wouldn't do a thing to the block.

OH, and or the turbo vs. supercharger debate? Lets not forget heat soak with the super's. Go turbo.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:32 AM   #38
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even for places to go out legally and safely and open up the truck is unknown to me, might take a few trips out to oregon dunes as they are not too far

as for long run durability, do you think the raptor kits are capable? I am a mudder by trade, and beleive the gas will get you out of more places than the brake so tend to be a tad bit hard on things. the suspension is the one place I am definetly willing to spend every penny I can as this truck will see some public road driving.
Stave Lake in Mission, brother. That's where to go. And when you're done let me know, I'd like to swing by and check your beast out!

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So F1, NASCAR, V8 supercars, all those engine builders are wrong? And you sir, you know more than them? Highly probable.

High horsepower high RPM engines run large bores and small strokes. Keeps the piston speed down, over 72 ft. per second and things start to get all bendy inside. Not a good thing. So hence the large 3-4 inch or so bore of V8 supercars and the less than 2 inch stroke. So they can sing at 7-9k RPM all day and never wear out. If the OP never wants to see some screamin RPM I wouldn't do a thing to the block.

OH, and or the turbo vs. supercharger debate? Lets not forget heat soak with the super's. Go turbo.
I don't know half as much about engine technology as you or the other person you are at a flame war with, but why would anyone recommend keeping the stock displacement instead of boring it out to 6.0L - 6.2L if you plan to use a supercharger? Could you not increase the displacement and run more boost to bring more power or am I missing something? Not trying to sound like a dumb ***, just a realistic question.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:02 AM   #39
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I don't know half as much about engine technology as you or the other person you are at a flame war with, but why would anyone recommend keeping the stock displacement instead of boring it out to 6.0L - 6.2L if you plan to use a supercharger? Could you not increase the displacement and run more boost to bring more power or am I missing something? Not trying to sound like a dumb ***, just a realistic question.
Personally I wouldn't bother with it. If I was going to bore I would bore it out, de-stroke it, deck the heads, and run less boost with more compression. So rather than 800hp at 26 psi, have 800 hp at 10 psi. Everything lasts longer, boost tubes don't blow off, all bunches of good stuff. Plus I would imagine that having 500 hp off boost would be better than 300 off boost. More responsive. Just my .02 cents tho.. I look at things differently than most coming from working on **** everyday and seeing how little it takes to blow stuff completely sky high. Alot of people think that low compresson high boost is the only way to go. I would never do that.

I think it was Hot Rod magazine that did a comparo with a 8.5:1 350 at 22 psi and it made 575 hp. Then they had a 10.5:1 350 at 12 psi and made 625. IIRC.... Of course, its all in the tune.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:39 AM   #40
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anybody heard of these guys? www.modularmustangracing.com

this is the motor I am interested in, its about half way down the page

MMR Street Mod 1000 2V 5.4Longblock(Mustang, F-150 or Lightning)

This forged MMR longblock can handle up to 1000HP. They include the MMR Street Mod 1000 shortblock with Forged Pistons, 4340 Forged MANLEY H-Beam Rods w/ARP bolts, fully balanced and blueprinted in a Brand new 5.4 Block, and fully assembled with new Ford Motorsport PI heads (romeo), ARP head studs, MMR/Felpro head gaskets, New factory Ford Motorsport Valves, springs, retainers, lifters, roller followers with factory PI cams professionally timed/degreed with new timing chains,guides, tensioners and a High Volume oil pump.
1 year warranty
Just add your Valve covers, oil pan and timing cover and GO!


Options:
UPGRADE TO TRICK FLOW HEADS +$1399
Upgrade to MMR Street/Racing Oil pump +$99
Upgrade to MMR Race Hurricane Billet Oil pump $399 (includes lifetime pump warranty)
Upgrade to Stage 1 Ported Heads +$699
Upgrade to Stage 2 Ported Heads +$799
Upgrade to Stage 3 Ported Heads +899
Upgrade to Stainless steel Valves +$275
Upgrade to High Lift Valve springs +$239
Add ARP Main Studs +$169
Upgrade to Stage 1-3 Camshafts +$639
Add MMR 7qrt Street/Racing Oil Pan +$229
Upgrade to ARP 2000 Rod bolts +$99
mitch I'm pretty sure this a 2v headed motor and not the 3v thats currently in the truck. Don't know if that matters to you and last I checked Trick flow didn't make a 3v head. I think the project is pretty sick good luck.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:39 AM
 
 
 
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