Just got my 04 F150
04-24-2014, 01:41 PM
#31
mulch-viscoity (oils with 2 numbers like 5w-30) oils get thicker as they get warmer... I know this flys in the face of common reasoning.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...cker_Oils.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...cker_Oils.aspx
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uzikaduzi (04-24-2014)
04-24-2014, 02:06 PM
#33
this was hard to read at first (I'm guessing my flawed understanding was hindering that) but it seems like a 5w-50 would have a very similar cold flow rate to it's operating temperature flow rate?
http://www.superiorlubricants.com/classtable.html
So I guess I still question a 5w-20, a 5w-30 and a 5w-40 having different cold flow rates... it seems like they should be the same at cold and just resist thinning better at higher temperatures?
http://www.superiorlubricants.com/classtable.html
So I guess I still question a 5w-20, a 5w-30 and a 5w-40 having different cold flow rates... it seems like they should be the same at cold and just resist thinning better at higher temperatures?
04-24-2014, 03:45 PM
#34
No they all have different rates. Heres a completely hypothetical example just so you get the idea.
U got three oils. 0/20 0/30 &0/40
now in order for a 20 grade to be able to have a 0 winter rating it has to have a viscosity of 150 (completely made up number) at -20 dgrees. In order for a 30 grade to be able to be called a 0w it has to have a viscosity of 200 at the same temp and then a 40 grade can be called a 0w it has a maxium of lets say 300 viscosity at the same temp.
Now even thought these numbers are made up because I have not memorized the real specs, you get the idea. As an oil grades resistance to cold flow changes so does the standard of testing for winter rating. Its impossible (almost) to make a 0w 40 that can flow in subzero temps like a 0w 20 and it would be unfair to ask the oil companies to do it. But any 0w is going to flow much better than higher winter grades in the same oil grade, so it gives you something to go on.
Every oil is also different. They usually post spec sheets on viscosity at 40, viscosity at 100 and viscosity index so if u want to really get into it your gonna have to compare oils......but most folks dont care that
much.
You should really check out the oil forum I mentioned. Those guys are pretty smart on it and can educate u better than I
U got three oils. 0/20 0/30 &0/40
now in order for a 20 grade to be able to have a 0 winter rating it has to have a viscosity of 150 (completely made up number) at -20 dgrees. In order for a 30 grade to be able to be called a 0w it has to have a viscosity of 200 at the same temp and then a 40 grade can be called a 0w it has a maxium of lets say 300 viscosity at the same temp.
Now even thought these numbers are made up because I have not memorized the real specs, you get the idea. As an oil grades resistance to cold flow changes so does the standard of testing for winter rating. Its impossible (almost) to make a 0w 40 that can flow in subzero temps like a 0w 20 and it would be unfair to ask the oil companies to do it. But any 0w is going to flow much better than higher winter grades in the same oil grade, so it gives you something to go on.
Every oil is also different. They usually post spec sheets on viscosity at 40, viscosity at 100 and viscosity index so if u want to really get into it your gonna have to compare oils......but most folks dont care that
much.
You should really check out the oil forum I mentioned. Those guys are pretty smart on it and can educate u better than I
04-24-2014, 03:48 PM
#35
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums.../forum_summary
Here its all there. Read post questions and read some more. Eventually you wont be able to retain it all.
Into the rabbit hole....lol
Here its all there. Read post questions and read some more. Eventually you wont be able to retain it all.
Into the rabbit hole....lol
04-24-2014, 04:02 PM
#37
No they all have different rates. Heres a completely hypothetical example just so you get the idea.
U got three oils. 0/20 0/30 &0/40
now in order for a 20 grade to be able to have a 0 winter rating it has to have a viscosity of 150 (completely made up number) at -20 dgrees. In order for a 30 grade to be able to be called a 0w it has to have a viscosity of 200 at the same temp and then a 40 grade can be called a 0w it has a maxium of lets say 300 viscosity at the same temp.
Now even thought these numbers are made up because I have not memorized the real specs, you get the idea. As an oil grades resistance to cold flow changes so does the standard of testing for winter rating. Its impossible (almost) to make a 0w 40 that can flow in subzero temps like a 0w 20 and it would be unfair to ask the oil companies to do it. But any 0w is going to flow much better than higher winter grades in the same oil grade, so it gives you something to go on.
Every oil is also different. They usually post spec sheets on viscosity at 40, viscosity at 100 and viscosity index so if u want to really get into it your gonna have to compare oils......but most folks dont care that
much.
You should really check out the oil forum I mentioned. Those guys are pretty smart on it and can educate u better than I
U got three oils. 0/20 0/30 &0/40
now in order for a 20 grade to be able to have a 0 winter rating it has to have a viscosity of 150 (completely made up number) at -20 dgrees. In order for a 30 grade to be able to be called a 0w it has to have a viscosity of 200 at the same temp and then a 40 grade can be called a 0w it has a maxium of lets say 300 viscosity at the same temp.
Now even thought these numbers are made up because I have not memorized the real specs, you get the idea. As an oil grades resistance to cold flow changes so does the standard of testing for winter rating. Its impossible (almost) to make a 0w 40 that can flow in subzero temps like a 0w 20 and it would be unfair to ask the oil companies to do it. But any 0w is going to flow much better than higher winter grades in the same oil grade, so it gives you something to go on.
Every oil is also different. They usually post spec sheets on viscosity at 40, viscosity at 100 and viscosity index so if u want to really get into it your gonna have to compare oils......but most folks dont care that
much.
You should really check out the oil forum I mentioned. Those guys are pretty smart on it and can educate u better than I
It seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... when you have multi-viscosity oils, it seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... , so with a 5w-30 it has a viscosity to suggest it should be a 5 weight oil at 40c and a viscosity that suggests it should be a 30 weight oil at 100c. A 30 weight oil at 100c, while a heavier weight oil than a 5 weight, is thinner at 100c then a 5 weight oil is at 40c... so at 40c all 5w-whatevers should be the same but a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40,... since they have different rates at which the oil additives or polymers or whatever they are called that change the way the oil behaves at different temperatures, a 5w-20 at 0c would likely be thinner than a 5w-30 or 5w-40 even though they would be the same at 40c.
am i on the right track here?
04-24-2014, 05:33 PM
#38
Senior Member
actually I feel like I'm getting it and maybe where my disconnect is... basically viscosity is completely relative to temperature so if you had a non-mulit-viscosity oil, what ever weight it is, it will flow at different rates depending on temperature, thicken with lower and thinning with higher. It seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... when you have multi-viscosity oils, it seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... , so with a 5w-30 it has a viscosity to suggest it should be a 5 weight oil at 40c and a viscosity that suggests it should be a 30 weight oil at 100c. A 30 weight oil at 100c, while a heavier weight oil than a 5 weight, is thinner at 100c then a 5 weight oil is at 40c... so at 40c all 5w-whatevers should be the same but a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40,... since they have different rates at which the oil additives or polymers or whatever they are called that change the way the oil behaves at different temperatures, a 5w-20 at 0c would likely be thinner than a 5w-30 or 5w-40 even though they would be the same at 40c. am i on the right track here?
04-24-2014, 08:15 PM
#39
actually I feel like I'm getting it and maybe where my disconnect is... basically viscosity is completely relative to temperature so if you had a non-mulit-viscosity oil, what ever weight it is, it will flow at different rates depending on temperature, thicken with lower and thinning with higher.
It seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... when you have multi-viscosity oils, it seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... , so with a 5w-30 it has a viscosity to suggest it should be a 5 weight oil at 40c and a viscosity that suggests it should be a 30 weight oil at 100c. A 30 weight oil at 100c, while a heavier weight oil than a 5 weight, is thinner at 100c then a 5 weight oil is at 40c... so at 40c all 5w-whatevers should be the same but a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40,... since they have different rates at which the oil additives or polymers or whatever they are called that change the way the oil behaves at different temperatures, a 5w-20 at 0c would likely be thinner than a 5w-30 or 5w-40 even though they would be the same at 40c.
am i on the right track here?
It seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... when you have multi-viscosity oils, it seems that the weights are by how they behave at specific temperatures... , so with a 5w-30 it has a viscosity to suggest it should be a 5 weight oil at 40c and a viscosity that suggests it should be a 30 weight oil at 100c. A 30 weight oil at 100c, while a heavier weight oil than a 5 weight, is thinner at 100c then a 5 weight oil is at 40c... so at 40c all 5w-whatevers should be the same but a 5w-20, 5w-30, 5w-40,... since they have different rates at which the oil additives or polymers or whatever they are called that change the way the oil behaves at different temperatures, a 5w-20 at 0c would likely be thinner than a 5w-30 or 5w-40 even though they would be the same at 40c.
am i on the right track here?
Ok in a nut shell, your in the right frame of mind. Now all you gotta do is a butt load more research. Like I said down the rabbit hole. Lol
Whats really gonna trip you out is when you find weird little things like the fact that mobil 1 5/30 is actually thinner at 40 degrees Fahrenheit and thinner at 210 degrees Fahrenheit than Mobil 1 AFE 0w30. Lol but at 0 degrees Fahrenheit it really shines at cold starting.
Then theres additive packages and base stocks. There are some pretty exciting things going on with mobil and sopus (Pennzoil, Quakerstate, and Shell). Sopus is really coming to the plate with GTL basestocks and extreme cleaning add packs and mobil has started using organic additives that dont show up on used oil analysis but show stellar performance I. Wear and sludge protection.
Motor oil is one of those things where the more you learn, the more you want to learn. Theres not many oil nerds out there but most of them meet at BITOG.com.
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uzikaduzi (04-25-2014)
04-24-2014, 08:18 PM
#40
