Timmernator

ok...we had the head checked..thats what the mechanic said...had one cracked valve guide?? head was slightly warped...had a bunch of stuck valves...they said they had to hit them with a hammer to get them to move?? resurfaced the head and took extra off the ends to get the head true...put it all back together...new pushrods & gaskets..the whole nine yards..all felpro..tourqued it all to specs...put the dist. in with the rotor pointing to the #1 cyl...#1 piston at TDC 100% for sure, as engine had not been moved from when having the head off..timing dots lined up before timing cover reinstalled..all was correct...we check double checked,triple checked...we even checked the compression right before firing it up after the headgasket and pushrod repair...all cyl had around 110 to 115 lbs of pressure...

went to fire it and it wouldnt start and still seemed out of time(a few small pops and backfires), even though we put the dist back to where it was supposed to go according to all manuals Ive read online and in books....so we took dist out and put it back a tooth off like it was in the beginning and it fired right up...we still dont understand why its pointing to the drivers side headlight and running??? the firing order/timing mark is correct.....

well it started fine after moving dist one tooth..timed it by ear...had a slight miss still...like a plug wire or bad spark plug, but it was running fairly good...ok...we turned it off and restarted it many times within an hour...each time it fired right up with a touch of the key...we got it figured out and fixed, FINALLY???

NOT QUITE?!?!?!?!?

well went out this morning and went to start it and drive around and it was like it started all over again, back to the beginning...it sounded weird right away when it turned over the 1st time...like no compression??? wouldnt hit a lick..didnt even fire one time...but it ran great when we shut it off last night??...I was freakin sick!!!.I went right away to check compression, as this is what it sounded like when we 1st starting working on this piece of $&!#...#1=0, #2=0, #3=0, #4=0, #5=120 and #6 had 150lbs???? how could this be??? especially the 150 reading?? took off the valve cover again to find 2 brand new intake side pushrods on the side of the #2 & #3 rockers and a few more intake side pushrods that were bent but not out of the rockers YET!

Mechanic brought his Father...oldschool retired mechanic...he thinks it was the oil not pumping enough..no oil getting to the lifters or rockers...the oil pump may have dried up while sitting for the past 2 years??? (but the rockers had plenty of oil on them as well did the inside of the valve cover)...oil was getting up there...we pulled the oil sending unit and oil kindof glumped out of the hole as it turned over....it wasnt a stream..maybe a handfull of oil each time motor came around....that tells me the pump was working, correct?

and even if it was oil related, wouldnt the exhaust valves also be sticking???...it seemed exactly the same as before...all intake valves sticking and bending puchrods, as they were loose and moving around freely without valve spring pressure....but the old guy said he watched the machine shop tech take out the valves and unstuck them with a hammer...I didnt think you could take a head apart and put it back together without marking each valve to make sure it went back into the exact position..otherwise it wouldnt seat right, as the valves do not rotate in the head at all...(what the ASE cerified mech told me today on the phone)there were no marks on the valves or in the comb. chambers...he swore up and down he was there when machineshop tore it completely down and fixed the valve guide in #3 cyl and shaved the head??? head to me looked the same as when they took it...still gunked up with deposits from a 120,000+ mile motor...you would think they would have cleaned it up before putting it back together, right?? but it had been resurfaced...

Now I have one guy telling me its bad gas causing it(gas in tank 2 years old)Varnish build-up on the valves and guides or maybe the lifters gummed up?? Old father time mech says its maybe the oil pump or all(I mean all) lifters not pumping up(even though the problem seems to be with just the intake side valves and pushrods? or the oil pump is not pumping enough due to gaskets dried up from sitting 2 years) if that was the case, the damage should be all the way across the cyls, not just mainly on the intake valves...the ASE certified mech telling me it was probably from the starting fluid in the beginning drying the intake guides off and doing no-lube damage....(which makes the most sense) and the head was not taken apart and inspected/repaired like the old guy said...just resurfaced....so after it cooled down from running it and starting it last night for close to an hour, it simply cooled down and contracted around the valvestem/guides. making them stick at intial turnover this morning

Is any of this making any sense to anyone??? Please help!!!I know we have to pull the head again and have it checked by another machine shop...that will let me know if the old guy is telling the truth?? But what else could have caused this??? Thanks in advance again for helping and reading all the way thru this long detailed post.

Ducati Pilot

If you had the head off, and took it to a machine shop (especially after bent pushrods) the only thing to even THINK about is to rebuild the head (tank it, clean it, new guides, resurface, valve job, and replace anything out of spec or bent) and that's all you should have considered. They come back looking like a fresh,new casting, or pretty close to it. If on a budget, get a used (but guaranteed) head from a wrecking yard pulled from a running truck of the lowest mileage you could find.

dr_bowtie

Agreed....

that head should have properly been degreased and glass beaded and the guides done...if it came back looking the same as you took it then it wasnt properly done...

once the valves are stuck there are burs in the guides...prolly on the stems too...they should be polished and Bronze guides installed...sounds like you got shanked...

seems it worked fine until it cooled...then when you cranked it cold the valves were stuck...

which timing tab are you using...? the cast in cover tab or the one on the left of the balancer...?

Timmernator

we used the actual dots on the timing gears after everything was said and done...just to make 100% it was timed right @TDC....We think it has to be gas related being most of the damage is on the intake side...where all the starting fluid was sprayed in the beginning of this ordeal...if it was oil, all valves would be sticking, correct?...I think it dried out the valvestems and ruined the guides...does that sound logical?.

how long would it take with bad 2 year old gas to varnish up the valves where it would cause them to stick???..could that happen with less than 30 minutes of on & off running? thanks again for all the imput!

Just call me Sean

iTrader: (1)

dr_bowtie

gas wont make it do that....period..the older it gets the less fire power it has...and has more lubricity...

the injector sprays on the head of the valve not the stem...

if you have oil on the rockers then the lifters are working...lube goes from the lifter up the pushrod to the rocker...a stuck lifter will NOT bend a a pushrod...thats the lifter trying to push teh valve open and it wont and the pushrod gives out...

either fix that one right or get another head...