what determines payload?
06-02-2016, 06:08 AM
#1
GO BLUE!
Thread Starter
what determines payload?
from an engineering standpoint what determines a trucks payload. i understand there is nothing liability wise that can change it and i am not asking how to just what determines it. is it a stopping issue or a weight capacity or spring issue? what makes a "max tow" able to have a higher payload? i am not understanding how a bigger trans cooler, gear and mirrors could do this. i understand that a superduty would increase payload but we are on a f-150 forum. help me understand.
06-02-2016, 07:28 AM
#2
Senior Member
Many, many threads on this.
Payload gets increased when the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) gets increased. Some of the things that get done to a truck to do this (i.e. the Heavy Duty Payload Package) include upgraded springs, a heavier duty frame, upgraded transmission cooler, stronger tires, ... Max Tow includes a stronger bumper, which therefore allows a higher payload. In addition to tires, wheels have limitations, as do axles.
While an increased GVWR is nice, what also matters is what you install on the truck, as every option (and everything you carry) subtracts from Payload. Put in a sunroof - you just lost payload.
Ford changes what goes into each package over time and makes it even more confusing. Used to be 7 lug wheels told you something, now it appears the HD Payload has standard 6?
Type into Google this:
site:www.f150forum.com heavy duty payload
and you will be able to read some of the more interesting threads.
Payload gets increased when the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) gets increased. Some of the things that get done to a truck to do this (i.e. the Heavy Duty Payload Package) include upgraded springs, a heavier duty frame, upgraded transmission cooler, stronger tires, ... Max Tow includes a stronger bumper, which therefore allows a higher payload. In addition to tires, wheels have limitations, as do axles.
While an increased GVWR is nice, what also matters is what you install on the truck, as every option (and everything you carry) subtracts from Payload. Put in a sunroof - you just lost payload.
Ford changes what goes into each package over time and makes it even more confusing. Used to be 7 lug wheels told you something, now it appears the HD Payload has standard 6?
Type into Google this:
site:www.f150forum.com heavy duty payload
and you will be able to read some of the more interesting threads.
06-02-2016, 10:40 AM
#3
from an engineering standpoint what determines a trucks payload. i understand there is nothing liability wise that can change it and i am not asking how to just what determines it. is it a stopping issue or a weight capacity or spring issue? what makes a "max tow" able to have a higher payload? i am not understanding how a bigger trans cooler, gear and mirrors could do this. i understand that a superduty would increase payload but we are on a f-150 forum. help me understand.
Disclaimer: I'm not a Ford engineer.
From an engineering standpoint, the GVWR is a function of the components, and specifically the engineering team needs to determine the weakest link in the components used. Is braking the limiting factor? Is the weight on a particular axle the limit? The transmissions ability to keep heat under control at 100 degree outside temperature on a 9% grade? And so on. Unfortunately for us, we don't know what the engineers determine is the limiter, or why that limit exists. We can only guess, which can be a dangerous thing when it comes to towing.
06-02-2016, 11:27 AM
#4
Senior Member
Some of the big ones are:
Suspension capacity
Axle - actual gear size and carrying capacity of the axle housing and gearing
Frame - capacity and actual trailer hitch capacity
engine power - TQ and HP
transmission - size, strength, gearing and cooling
Tires - capacity, generally matched to axle and suspension ability
Brakes - stopping power and ability to dissipate heat
I'll edit if I think of anything else
Most of these are also a determining factor in towing capacity as well.
Suspension capacity
Axle - actual gear size and carrying capacity of the axle housing and gearing
Frame - capacity and actual trailer hitch capacity
engine power - TQ and HP
transmission - size, strength, gearing and cooling
Tires - capacity, generally matched to axle and suspension ability
Brakes - stopping power and ability to dissipate heat
I'll edit if I think of anything else
Most of these are also a determining factor in towing capacity as well.
06-02-2016, 11:44 AM
#5
GO BLUE!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ricktwuhk
Many, many threads on this.
Payload gets increased when the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) gets increased. Some of the things that get done to a truck to do this (i.e. the Heavy Duty Payload Package) include upgraded springs, a heavier duty frame, upgraded transmission cooler, stronger tires, ... Max Tow includes a stronger bumper, which therefore allows a higher payload. In addition to tires, wheels have limitations, as do axles.
While an increased GVWR is nice, what also matters is what you install on the truck, as every option (and everything you carry) subtracts from Payload. Put in a sunroof - you just lost payload.
Ford changes what goes into each package over time and makes it even more confusing. Used to be 7 lug wheels told you something, now it appears the HD Payload has standard 6?
Type into Google this:
site:www.f150forum.com heavy duty payload
and you will be able to read some of the more interesting threads.
Payload gets increased when the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) gets increased. Some of the things that get done to a truck to do this (i.e. the Heavy Duty Payload Package) include upgraded springs, a heavier duty frame, upgraded transmission cooler, stronger tires, ... Max Tow includes a stronger bumper, which therefore allows a higher payload. In addition to tires, wheels have limitations, as do axles.
While an increased GVWR is nice, what also matters is what you install on the truck, as every option (and everything you carry) subtracts from Payload. Put in a sunroof - you just lost payload.
Ford changes what goes into each package over time and makes it even more confusing. Used to be 7 lug wheels told you something, now it appears the HD Payload has standard 6?
Type into Google this:
site:www.f150forum.com heavy duty payload
and you will be able to read some of the more interesting threads.
06-02-2016, 12:05 PM
#6
Senior Member
I don't want to come off as a jerk but the frame is different? and what does a stronger bumper have to do with payload? from everything i am understanding which may be very little,a heavier bumper would decrease payload. like i said i am not trying to sound like a dbag just trying to educate myself.
All F150's, of the same vintage, have the same frame but other vehicles this may not be the case.
06-02-2016, 12:16 PM
#7
Senior Member
Trending Topics
06-02-2016, 11:12 PM
#8
Grumpy Old Man
Let's straighten up some of the misinformation in this thread.
Payload is a function of gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) = how much weight the vehicle can HAUL on the two axles of the vehicle. GVWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded vehicle = payload capacity available for hauling more weight, such as tongue weight or pin weight.
GVWR is determined by the various components of the vehicle = tires, wheels, springs and other suspension components, axles and bearings, frame strength, and brakes. Yes, brakes. If you can't stop it, then you can't safely haul it. The weakest component is the limiter for GVWR.
Gross combined weight rating (GCWR) is the max weight your vehicle can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades. GCWR is determined by engine power and torque, engine and transmission cooling systems, and the leverage generated by your gearing.
GCWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded vehicle = the tow rating of that vehicle. But manufacturers maximize the tow rating by using the weight of a vehicle without any options or passengers or tools or anything in the vehicle except a skinny driver. Therefore manufacturers tow ratings are not realistic.
So transmission cooling and engine cooling have nothing to do with payload and everything to do with tow rating. IOW, cooling helps determine GCWR, not GVWR.
More GVWR. Ford F-150s have three different levels of GVWR. Normal GVWR for about 90% of all F-150s. The Max Tow Pkg for 2011 thru 2014 F-150s adds a few hundred pounds more GVWR, with heavier duty suspension and other components. The Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP) adds another few hundred pounds of GVWR, with heavier duty suspension, wheels, and tires.
If you drive my F-150 Lariat with normal GVWR, then jump in an F-150 Lariat that has HDPP, you'll definitely feel the difference.
Payload is a function of gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) = how much weight the vehicle can HAUL on the two axles of the vehicle. GVWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded vehicle = payload capacity available for hauling more weight, such as tongue weight or pin weight.
GVWR is determined by the various components of the vehicle = tires, wheels, springs and other suspension components, axles and bearings, frame strength, and brakes. Yes, brakes. If you can't stop it, then you can't safely haul it. The weakest component is the limiter for GVWR.
Gross combined weight rating (GCWR) is the max weight your vehicle can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades. GCWR is determined by engine power and torque, engine and transmission cooling systems, and the leverage generated by your gearing.
GCWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded vehicle = the tow rating of that vehicle. But manufacturers maximize the tow rating by using the weight of a vehicle without any options or passengers or tools or anything in the vehicle except a skinny driver. Therefore manufacturers tow ratings are not realistic.
So transmission cooling and engine cooling have nothing to do with payload and everything to do with tow rating. IOW, cooling helps determine GCWR, not GVWR.
Originally Posted by brown1
what makes a "max tow" able to have a higher payload
More GVWR. Ford F-150s have three different levels of GVWR. Normal GVWR for about 90% of all F-150s. The Max Tow Pkg for 2011 thru 2014 F-150s adds a few hundred pounds more GVWR, with heavier duty suspension and other components. The Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP) adds another few hundred pounds of GVWR, with heavier duty suspension, wheels, and tires.
If you drive my F-150 Lariat with normal GVWR, then jump in an F-150 Lariat that has HDPP, you'll definitely feel the difference.
Last edited by smokeywren; 06-04-2016 at 11:41 AM. Reason: feel, not fell the difference
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06-03-2016, 12:35 AM
#9
Senior Member
Payload
I just ran out to my new '16 and verified my payload sticker, which has a weight of 1939#. It's got the 53A tow package on it & I'm getting the integral brake controller installed in the morning.
53A tow package, which I'm assuming is the option for $895, adds a good bit but has less items than the 53C, which is Max Tow. Is that a correct look at them?? The only difference that I see, is the brake controller and the upgraded rear axle and rear bumper. My question is what is the "upgraded" rear axle, that would be included in the Max Tow?
Looking at various trucks, we noticed that trucks having the 301A vs. 302A package had a higher payload sticker than the other trucks. Most non-SPORT XLT's 301A equipped had stickers over 2000#, with the highest at 2046# IIR.
Second question, having the 36 gallon gas tank, that added fuel capacity drops the overall payload, correct, and adds to the curb weight of the vehicle?
I also notice in the 2016 Towing Guide that with my motor/rear end combo I drop from 10,100 tow capacity to 8400#, what is going to make that drastic a difference??
Thanks in advance smokey....
It's funny telling a salesman that the 2.7L Eco with a receiver with no trailer package won't pull a 9000# trailer....
53A tow package, which I'm assuming is the option for $895, adds a good bit but has less items than the 53C, which is Max Tow. Is that a correct look at them?? The only difference that I see, is the brake controller and the upgraded rear axle and rear bumper. My question is what is the "upgraded" rear axle, that would be included in the Max Tow?
Looking at various trucks, we noticed that trucks having the 301A vs. 302A package had a higher payload sticker than the other trucks. Most non-SPORT XLT's 301A equipped had stickers over 2000#, with the highest at 2046# IIR.
Second question, having the 36 gallon gas tank, that added fuel capacity drops the overall payload, correct, and adds to the curb weight of the vehicle?
I also notice in the 2016 Towing Guide that with my motor/rear end combo I drop from 10,100 tow capacity to 8400#, what is going to make that drastic a difference??
Thanks in advance smokey....
It's funny telling a salesman that the 2.7L Eco with a receiver with no trailer package won't pull a 9000# trailer....
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big_ole_truck (06-05-2016)