Valuable Lesson Learned with Weight Ratings
01-10-2019, 03:36 PM
#11
Senior Member
It sounds like the truck you have is close and might work with careful packing. Unless you're planning on very long distance towing it might be possible to pull the TT with the truck and use a separate vehicle for the wife. kids, and a lot of the luggage. At least temporarily until you can decide exactly which direction to go.
If I were buying an F250 I'd go with the gas engine for most recreational use. The diesel makes more sense for commercial use, but it is a $9000 option. It does get somewhat better fuel mileage and the diesel engines will pull heavy loads faster. But not necessarily pull any more weight. You run into the same payload deal. Diesel engines are much heavier than gas and that cuts into payload. I have a friend with a diesel F250 rated to tow 15,000 lbs. But his payload is so limited that he is overloaded with a 10,000 lb trailer and 3 adults in the cab. But his engine will pull that 10,000 lbs up an incline at 80 mph without working hard at all. The gas engine will still get up the inclines, you may just have to slow down.
When you factor in the much higher costs of fuel, and maintenance you'll never come out ahead financially by going with a diesel. Even if you wear out the gas engine and have it replaced at 200,000 miles you'll still be ahead financially.
If I were buying an F250 I'd go with the gas engine for most recreational use. The diesel makes more sense for commercial use, but it is a $9000 option. It does get somewhat better fuel mileage and the diesel engines will pull heavy loads faster. But not necessarily pull any more weight. You run into the same payload deal. Diesel engines are much heavier than gas and that cuts into payload. I have a friend with a diesel F250 rated to tow 15,000 lbs. But his payload is so limited that he is overloaded with a 10,000 lb trailer and 3 adults in the cab. But his engine will pull that 10,000 lbs up an incline at 80 mph without working hard at all. The gas engine will still get up the inclines, you may just have to slow down.
When you factor in the much higher costs of fuel, and maintenance you'll never come out ahead financially by going with a diesel. Even if you wear out the gas engine and have it replaced at 200,000 miles you'll still be ahead financially.
01-10-2019, 10:28 PM
#12
If you like the 150, consider a HDPP. You cant get over a xlt 301a however, but I just did not like the 250 gasser, forcing me to a 350 diesel. Too much truck for 98% of my requirements. I like the way the 150 drives as a daily.
01-11-2019, 09:17 AM
#13
Senior Member
I have a HDPP. It doesn't replace a 250/350. The brakes and transmission I see is the biggest difference. The 250/350 are trucks, built tougher and more sturdier.
The HDPP is just a beefed up 150. But with that said, I have one. The way I figure it, I might as well get the toughest sturdiest f150 if I get one so I did.
The HDPP is just a beefed up 150. But with that said, I have one. The way I figure it, I might as well get the toughest sturdiest f150 if I get one so I did.
01-11-2019, 10:49 AM
#14
There are things you still miss with the HDPP. My biggest consideration is just basic size/weight. There is confidence in stability, and matching a large trailer with a larger truck just works better. The HDPP will address the payload issues a lot of people run into, but it still doesnt address the fact its smaller/lighter truck.
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acdii (01-12-2019)
01-11-2019, 11:23 AM
#15
There are things you still miss with the HDPP. My biggest consideration is just basic size/weight. There is confidence in stability, and matching a large trailer with a larger truck just works better. The HDPP will address the payload issues a lot of people run into, but it still doesnt address the fact its smaller/lighter truck.
01-11-2019, 06:10 PM
#16
There are things you still miss with the HDPP. My biggest consideration is just basic size/weight. There is confidence in stability, and matching a large trailer with a larger truck just works better. The HDPP will address the payload issues a lot of people run into, but it still doesnt address the fact its smaller/lighter truck.
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acdii (01-12-2019)
01-12-2019, 10:13 AM
#17
First time post for me. And first I want to thank this forum for being so awesome! I learned a TON about weight ratings and towing capacity after reading through dozens of threads and posts. Thank you! Maybe this post will help someone in the future save a little time and maybe even $$$ with my story.
A couple of years ago as "phase 1" of the Get a Family Camper project I bought a new 2017 F150 SCREW, 2WD, 5.0L, 3.55 gears, 20" wheels, with tow package. I didn't know anything about towing/payload/weight ratings at the time. I just focused on the "max tow rating" of 10,100 pounds and thought I'd be good to go. Ugh.
Fast forward to this last weekend after a year and a half saving for a camper. We went to an RV show and bought a Travel Trailer! It's just what we wanted with plenty of room for us and the 3 kids. Then came the sad part. Yesterday after many hours of number crunching I came to the awful realization my beloved F150 will not (safely) pull the TT we got. I had been focused on the wrong numbers, not payload.
The Payload on my F150 is 1683. GVWR is 6800. I weighed it yesterday on a Cat scale with a full tank of gas at 5120 (without me in it). So the dry weight is almost exactly the GVWR minus the Payload, which is what I would expect. So one lesson I learned is the payload value does not include the driver (I saw in another thread where someone thought it included a 150lb driver, but that is not the case, plus who in the world weighs 150lb?! but I digress).
So after getting the calculator to add up 620 lbs for the family (me, wife, 3 kids), 125 for a WDH, 150 for "stuff" (suitcases, firewood, tonneau cover, whatever), I ended up with 6800 - 5120 - 620 - 125 - 150 = 785 lbs left for tongue weight. Sadly, the tongue weight on the TT is 904 lbs. And that is only 11% of the trailer dry weight vs the 13% I often see referenced in this forum. So although I'd be well within the GCWR of 15,200 lbs, I would exceed my truck's GVWR by more than 100 pounds. Then adding anything at all to the camper just makes it worse.
I also learned a WDH only redistributes the weight forward, i.e. between the front and rear truck axles. I had hoped I could push some of that 904 tongue weight back on the trailer axles to stay under the truck's GVWR (the trailer's GVWR has room to spare), but I learned that would also cause stability problems which is about the last thing I want. Danger was just written all over my plans!
I know there are tons of folks out there who exceed their towing vehicle's GVWR, but I'm not going to be one of them thanks to a bunch of research and helpful insights from this forum. So, I am sad to say I have to say goodbye to my beloved KR and trade in for a F250. But I am happy to say I won't be white-knuckling it down the highway pulling our camper! Family safety comes first and peace of mind is worth it.
I hope this helps someone, and thank you again to the forum for being so helpful to me!!
__________________
2017 F-150 KR 4x2 SuperCrew, 5.0L V8, 3.55 e-locker axle, tow pkg, 5.5' bed --> soon to be "upgrading" to a F-250!
A couple of years ago as "phase 1" of the Get a Family Camper project I bought a new 2017 F150 SCREW, 2WD, 5.0L, 3.55 gears, 20" wheels, with tow package. I didn't know anything about towing/payload/weight ratings at the time. I just focused on the "max tow rating" of 10,100 pounds and thought I'd be good to go. Ugh.
Fast forward to this last weekend after a year and a half saving for a camper. We went to an RV show and bought a Travel Trailer! It's just what we wanted with plenty of room for us and the 3 kids. Then came the sad part. Yesterday after many hours of number crunching I came to the awful realization my beloved F150 will not (safely) pull the TT we got. I had been focused on the wrong numbers, not payload.
The Payload on my F150 is 1683. GVWR is 6800. I weighed it yesterday on a Cat scale with a full tank of gas at 5120 (without me in it). So the dry weight is almost exactly the GVWR minus the Payload, which is what I would expect. So one lesson I learned is the payload value does not include the driver (I saw in another thread where someone thought it included a 150lb driver, but that is not the case, plus who in the world weighs 150lb?! but I digress).
So after getting the calculator to add up 620 lbs for the family (me, wife, 3 kids), 125 for a WDH, 150 for "stuff" (suitcases, firewood, tonneau cover, whatever), I ended up with 6800 - 5120 - 620 - 125 - 150 = 785 lbs left for tongue weight. Sadly, the tongue weight on the TT is 904 lbs. And that is only 11% of the trailer dry weight vs the 13% I often see referenced in this forum. So although I'd be well within the GCWR of 15,200 lbs, I would exceed my truck's GVWR by more than 100 pounds. Then adding anything at all to the camper just makes it worse.
I also learned a WDH only redistributes the weight forward, i.e. between the front and rear truck axles. I had hoped I could push some of that 904 tongue weight back on the trailer axles to stay under the truck's GVWR (the trailer's GVWR has room to spare), but I learned that would also cause stability problems which is about the last thing I want. Danger was just written all over my plans!
I know there are tons of folks out there who exceed their towing vehicle's GVWR, but I'm not going to be one of them thanks to a bunch of research and helpful insights from this forum. So, I am sad to say I have to say goodbye to my beloved KR and trade in for a F250. But I am happy to say I won't be white-knuckling it down the highway pulling our camper! Family safety comes first and peace of mind is worth it.
I hope this helps someone, and thank you again to the forum for being so helpful to me!!
__________________
2017 F-150 KR 4x2 SuperCrew, 5.0L V8, 3.55 e-locker axle, tow pkg, 5.5' bed --> soon to be "upgrading" to a F-250!
01-12-2019, 10:40 AM
#18
There are things you still miss with the HDPP. My biggest consideration is just basic size/weight. There is confidence in stability, and matching a large trailer with a larger truck just works better. The HDPP will address the payload issues a lot of people run into, but it still doesnt address the fact its smaller/lighter truck.
The 3/4 and 1 ton actually have to have heavier duty components, because they weigh more, and are designed to tow and stop heavier weight and load.
The lighter weight does show up in higher winds of 30 mph and gusts, but it also shows up for big rigs at those wind speeds.
I only used a little over a 1/2 tank of gas since mid November, because I don't care for driving a big truck unless I need a truck, and a bigger ,slower, and cumbersome truck is just too much, and the HDPP 1/2 was the best solution on the market for me.
If I like driving big trucks, there really wouldn't be any benefits of a HDPP over a HD, but that's not the case...that truck is really a PITA when not towing, and there has never been a time while driving my car I wished I drove the truck instead.
Last edited by Maury82; 01-12-2019 at 11:01 AM.
01-12-2019, 11:19 AM
#19
acdii,
Thanks for the info--just what I was looking for. I put your numbers into a spreadsheet to better compare them. Do you have an error in the gross weights?
Shouldn't the gross weights stay the same except for the weight of the hitch--rather than going down with heavier hitches?
12460 without WDH
12440 with Husky
12300 with Blue Ox
Thanks for the info--just what I was looking for. I put your numbers into a spreadsheet to better compare them. Do you have an error in the gross weights?
Shouldn't the gross weights stay the same except for the weight of the hitch--rather than going down with heavier hitches?
12460 without WDH
12440 with Husky
12300 with Blue Ox
01-12-2019, 11:28 AM
#20
acdii,
Thanks for the info--just what I was looking for. I put your numbers into a spreadsheet to better compare them. Do you have an error in the gross weights?
Shouldn't the gross weights stay the same except for the weight of the hitch--rather than going down with heavier hitches?
12460 without WDH
12440 with Husky
12300 with Blue Ox
Thanks for the info--just what I was looking for. I put your numbers into a spreadsheet to better compare them. Do you have an error in the gross weights?
Shouldn't the gross weights stay the same except for the weight of the hitch--rather than going down with heavier hitches?
12460 without WDH
12440 with Husky
12300 with Blue Ox
