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Here's a graph I made a while back showing payload used vs remaining tow capacity for my truck. It has a GCWR of 16100 lbs, a GVWR of 7050 lbs, a maximum payload of 1801 lbs, and is rated for a trailer up to 10600 lbs by the Ford Towing Guide. For any given payload used, the towing capacity is limited by the lowest line. The red GVWR line is assuming 13% of the trailer weight is on the hitch. A higher % would make the left end of the line go lower. The other two lines aren't affected by the % hitch weight.
This shows I can tow the max tow rating as long as there is less than about 250 lbs of weight in the truck, including driver weight. From 250 to about 440 lbs the GCWR is the limit. After 440 lbs the GVWR is the limit.
Remember though that at those higher weights, you're adding at least 100 lbs for the WD hitch, and if it's a 5th wheel it's a few hundred lbs for the kingpin hitch. So with just the driver and a WD hitch, you're pretty much at the GCWR/GVWR limits anyways. This is why I started this thread, it's really payload that matters in the end. Especially since most people with large trailers don't drive by themselves in the truck and usually aren't 150lbs or less. There's also usually other stuff in the truck as well.
Originally Posted by Jeff1024
Think you are missing the point here buddy. Your 9k fifth wheel is well into 3/4 Ton truck territory. I would also look into a long bed truck, I am honestly a bit curious how you got the fifth wheel to turn /w the 5.5ft F150 bed. Do you still have a back window?
Could be a slider hitch, or one of those fancy 5th wheel hitches I've seen that swivel at the top of the pin where it connects to the trailer body instead of at the hitch. I've seen many people tow 5ers with a shortbox. You just need the right setup.
Hello, this was probably asked and answered and I missed due to newness in your forum.
I have a 2017 F150 XLT 4x4 Screw 3.5 Ecoboost with max tow. Dealer tells me it has a payload if about 2600. RV dealer sold me a Grand Design 28Bh with dry weight of 8895, pin of 1560. Until I started joining forums I did not think to look at the sticker which says that:
GVWR is 7250
Payload is 1753
Although after 800 miles and gone through hills and up to 10% decent where the truck performed fine, the power seems to be there, pulling and stopping. However, I am concerned that I am overweight. The pin and hitch alone is over that payload.
Questions:
- did I read this correctly and I am way overweight?
- if so, will a Heavy duty payload package help and if so how
much?
- if not, what is a good solution?
If I am overweight, it would seem like my Ford and RV dealer misled me.
I hope you got the answers you were looking for, even though they're not so great news for you. In the end though, at least now you know. And the most important lesson is not to believe RV salesmen. They just want to you buy it and leave. How you tow it away doesn't matter to them. Same can be said of truck salesmen. If you tell them you have a certain trailer, they'll tell you that the truck they're trying to sell you can tow it "no problem!". Again, they don't care about what you do after you leave with the truck.
Knowing the numbers is key, and making sure you're all within the truck's capabilities. I do wish it was much clearer when buying both trucks and trailers, but this is why I'm putting the emphasis on payload. This is what matters in the end 99% of the time.
If you can fit the humans + whatever you bring in the truck + hitch weight (if required) + tongue weight, and all fall under the payload limit, then you should be set.
The only combination Ford sells that can tow 13,200 pounds is a Screw XL 3.5 with 6.5 bed and max tow. That's it no other is rated to tow the max.
However, given that the max trailer weight is 13,200 pounds, and the Max Tow receiver is rated at 1320 pounds, that means that no more than 10% of the trailer weight can rest on the ball with a WDH. Ever pull a large heavy trailer with 10% TW? I have, once, once, never again! So in reality, unless that trailer is a flatbed with moveable load to get 10% and remain stable, then even the exact rated truck can't tow to the max safely.
The way I have done it, and has worked well for me, GVWR times 13% equals the max trailer for my payload. I started looking at trailers, then got the GVWR and started calculating and found that a 7600 pound trailer with 13% TW was 988 on the ball, or 1088 with the WDH. Subtract that from my known payload, which is the actual weight subtracted from the GVWR on the white sticker, with me and my travel stuff loaded. Now I know whether or not that trailer will work with my truck.
So in a sense, yes, TW is the most important aspect when trying to decide on a trailer. Knowing what the potential TW can be is the name of the game. So far getting 13% on the ball seems to handle best for what I have been towing. As it sits now mine is at 13.5%
I'd say for the majority of F150 owners it is true that payload is the limiting factor for towing. But for some it's rGAWR and for those with HDPP and some lightly optioned non-HDPP it's most often the max tongue weight rating of the hitch. All the ratings matter. A given truck may be prone to going over one before others.
Should we really just start going by tongue weight and payload alone at this point?
With all the questions going around about trailer weights, I don't think any of that really matters. 99.9% of the time, you will run out of payload before you hit your GCWR and your max trailer weight. I have yet to see someone who can actually tow the rated trailer weight or higher and still be within payload limits.
If someone can, please post up your numbers! And yes, you have to include you as part of the payload and family if applicable... Also no cheating by removing stock parts lol
I've been really pushing the payload numbers towards people when they ask about trailer weights because that's always the limit you hit first. So I almost wonder if the max trailer weight is a pointless number to go by. I mean, unless you're towing a wagon-style farm trailer, which is rare... The most important number is always the tongue weight.
Does someone know of configurations that can tow the max trailer rating or GCWR posted in the charts and still be within payload? If not, then maybe when trailer shopping, the dealers should have tongue weights listed on their trailers along with the total weight. I know for a fact that many don't even know and just go by the 10-13% which is really just a guess, and the dealer I went to a few weekends ago couldn't tell me a tongue weight for any of their trailers...
Only works for specific trucks and specific trailers.
With trucks similar to mine the first limiter on a Enclosed Car Hauler (11% Hitch Weight) is:
53A - Hitch
53B - GCWR
53C - GCWR or RAWR
I can get to 19100 GCW with 460 lb of people and WDH at 7000 lb GVW with 11% Tongue.
Most people who go over are those with travel trailers, so that is what is mostly referenced, mainly because cargo and other trailers vary so much in tongue weight and distribution. A horse trailer is an example of that. The cargo (horses) plant the weight directly on top of the axles, so it never hits the tongue. Mine has 600 pounds TW, with or without horses in it. It only goes up or down with what is put in the tack room.
Only works for specific trucks and specific trailers.
With trucks similar to mine the first limiter on a Enclosed Car Hauler (11% Hitch Weight) is:
53A - Hitch
53B - GCWR
53C - GCWR or RAWR
I can get to 19100 GCW with 460 lb of people and WDH at 7000 lb GVW with 11% Tongue.
Almost all configuration will be limited by the tongue weight in some form, whether it be payload, hitch rating, GAWR etc... The weight of the trailer itself is rarely the limit you hit first unless it's a boat, wagon, or some GN's. Also, heavier travel trailers over 9-10k won't be at 11% tongue weight, they're usually more towards the 13-15% range.
Last edited by BlackBoost; 08-20-2018 at 02:18 PM.
I guess I'm the 0.01%.
8,100 lb towing capacity
1,818 payload
You only have to include your weight over 150lbs according to the 2015 F150 towing guide. I'm over 150. Have added running boards and a bed cover.
8100x.15=1265
1818-1265=553
250 for my excess over 150, the running boards, and bed cover is 300lbs leftover for tools/cargo.
The tow rating includes 150lb driver, the payload number does not.
Here's the thing. So you can fit under payload and at max trailer weight...great but I bet you're over GCWR.
I have the same 1818lb payload and my truck is rated to tow 9100lb. GCWR is 14,400, GVWR is 7,000 so truck as delivered (with full tank of fuel) is 5182lb. Now add 9100lb trailer and that's 14282 leaving 118lb for me and the hitch (and anything else on/in my truck)
As for the payload math, 9100*.13=1183, hitch = 100 leaving 535 for occupants and miscellaneous stuff. If it's just my wife and I, that is easy. So max trailer weight, under payload no problem. Under GCWR is not happening though. (probably over RAWR in that scenario too)
I guess I'm the 0.01%.
8,100 lb towing capacity
1,818 payload
You only have to include your weight over 150lbs according to the 2015 F150 towing guide. I'm over 150. Have added running boards and a bed cover.
8100x.15=1265
1818-1265=553
250 for my excess over 150, the running boards, and bed cover is 300lbs leftover for tools/cargo.
I would say 0.01% is overstating it. At 1907 Payload / 7000 Tow I'm in the minority with an 18 F150 except a significant percentage of F150's are sold with numbers like 1500-2000/6000-7000
08-07-2018, 01:57 PM
