RV Dealerships are lying to us 1/2 ton guys!
07-22-2019, 11:42 AM
#21
In defense of those that some here claim are just ignorant for not doing proper research, there is nothing to prompt one to consider whether one can tow something outside of the quite obvious like large things one may have seen a 350 or larger tow. My youngest is taking driver education and studying for his road test, and there is not a single mention of towing. There’s also no mention of staying within the capacity of a driven vehicle. Add to this; most people cannot estimate weights, understand nothing about suspensions, and don’t know that braking and steering can be affected by a load.
The US requires a separate certification to be able to ride a motorcycle, should be the same for towing. How to determine a vehicles capacity should be taught for all drivers, and a towing certification should add negotiating sharp turns, reacting to push and sway, additional spacing, backing, and using a spotter.
I’d love to pay an additional $50-100 for a towing certification, just to get most of the questionable loads off the road.
The US requires a separate certification to be able to ride a motorcycle, should be the same for towing. How to determine a vehicles capacity should be taught for all drivers, and a towing certification should add negotiating sharp turns, reacting to push and sway, additional spacing, backing, and using a spotter.
I’d love to pay an additional $50-100 for a towing certification, just to get most of the questionable loads off the road.
Well, there actually is a course, Commercial Driving school. I doubt someone would pay the thousands it costs for such a course though to tow a trailer, but an abbreviated course specific to non commercial would be very beneficial to all drivers.
07-22-2019, 04:27 PM
#22
In regards to dealerships being dishonest I give them all benefit of the doubt. Don't think they are liars, just stupid. Would just call them ignorant but they pass themselves as educated authority, so stupid it is.
Now for the guy who sees a big trailer behind a truck on tv and thinks he can do the same with zero research on the subject? I'll be nice and say that person is ignorant. Acknowledged ignorance is a good thing if one is trying to learn. Believing what any sales guy says would be better described as naïve, because we all know the person giving the advice is too stupid to be credible.
Now for the guy who sees a big trailer behind a truck on tv and thinks he can do the same with zero research on the subject? I'll be nice and say that person is ignorant. Acknowledged ignorance is a good thing if one is trying to learn. Believing what any sales guy says would be better described as naïve, because we all know the person giving the advice is too stupid to be credible.
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acdii (07-22-2019)
07-23-2019, 05:02 PM
#23
I'm not being negative, or bitter, I'm just stating facts. If your main source of purchase information on an item, is the salesman of that item, then the expression, "a fool and his money soon part", is 100% accurate. And this is compounded when the unskilled and inexperienced buy things like boats, campers, and other big-ticket items. If I was an RV salesman, I'd salivate every time the average guy walked on the lot with the wife and kids in tow. And if I was the salesman... I'd certainly not tell them their current truck is inadequate for what they want to tow. But maybe that's why I'm also not an RV salesman.
07-25-2019, 01:48 PM
#24
being overloaded is called negligence. Negligence is a hotbutton term and jurors don't even know what it means, they just know that they should make someone pay for it. A good injury lawyer goes up and presents a case where his client is injured, and the defendant was operating negligently by overloading his truck/trailer, that's more or less a guarantee of a finding of negligence, especially if it contributed to the incident in question. I spent 15 years in the commercial claims field, and handled hundreds, if not thousands of commercial auto claims including litigation. They will throw everything against the wall, and sure enough a few things will 'stick'.
Thanks for the convo. We don’t disagree that we shouldn’t drive overloaded. Just haven’t seen any evidence of court cases.
Last edited by jcb206; 07-25-2019 at 01:58 PM.
07-25-2019, 01:57 PM
#25
Well, I haven't found the one I had read a year or so ago, but here is an example of one in Australia. https://mr4x4.com.au/overweight-cara...fter-accident/
These may not be travel trailer related, but they are pickup truck related, https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/im...s-in-lawsuits/
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/sewic...icku306f6b46df
Here's the thing, trying to find an actual court case is difficult unless one knows the name of one of the parties. Just because a Google doesn't turn one up, doesn't mean they don't exist.
The bottom line is this. The driver is 100% responsible for the vehicle, it's contents, and it's passengers along with anything attached to it. That responsibility also covers what the weights are and they they are at or below the manufacturers GVWR and GAWR. Driving on the open road with either or both of these exceeded is illegal, and can result in a fine and out of service ticket until weight has been removed. The chances of being pulled over vary by state and is rare in most occasions, but there are several states cracking down on it, I know Nebraska and Indiana are both on the lookout for overweight pickups.
When it comes to Civil law, if a crash occurs and one party is found to have exceeded the weight ratings, then lawyers have a good case against the driver, regardless of who was at fault. They can clearly state that being over the GVWR or GAWR exceeds the braking capability of the vehicle, and that is pretty much all they need to present in order to win judgement. It makes zero difference if the vehicle has aftermarket brakes or suspension components that exceed the OEM, since OEM is what they will prove, not what was added aftermarket. That white sticker on the door post is what is legally binding, and nothing else. All they need to prove is negligence on the part of the driver to win the case.
This is what people need to get in their heads, NO one, repeat NO ONE but the driver is responsible for the vehicle they are operating. They are 100% fully responsible to make sure the vehicle is safe to operate and is at or under all it's ratings. It is not the dealer who sold the truck, it is not the dealer who sold the trailer, it is not the mechanic who installed the hitch, it is the driver.
These may not be travel trailer related, but they are pickup truck related, https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/im...s-in-lawsuits/
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/sewic...icku306f6b46df
Here's the thing, trying to find an actual court case is difficult unless one knows the name of one of the parties. Just because a Google doesn't turn one up, doesn't mean they don't exist.
The bottom line is this. The driver is 100% responsible for the vehicle, it's contents, and it's passengers along with anything attached to it. That responsibility also covers what the weights are and they they are at or below the manufacturers GVWR and GAWR. Driving on the open road with either or both of these exceeded is illegal, and can result in a fine and out of service ticket until weight has been removed. The chances of being pulled over vary by state and is rare in most occasions, but there are several states cracking down on it, I know Nebraska and Indiana are both on the lookout for overweight pickups.
When it comes to Civil law, if a crash occurs and one party is found to have exceeded the weight ratings, then lawyers have a good case against the driver, regardless of who was at fault. They can clearly state that being over the GVWR or GAWR exceeds the braking capability of the vehicle, and that is pretty much all they need to present in order to win judgement. It makes zero difference if the vehicle has aftermarket brakes or suspension components that exceed the OEM, since OEM is what they will prove, not what was added aftermarket. That white sticker on the door post is what is legally binding, and nothing else. All they need to prove is negligence on the part of the driver to win the case.
This is what people need to get in their heads, NO one, repeat NO ONE but the driver is responsible for the vehicle they are operating. They are 100% fully responsible to make sure the vehicle is safe to operate and is at or under all it's ratings. It is not the dealer who sold the truck, it is not the dealer who sold the trailer, it is not the mechanic who installed the hitch, it is the driver.
Not playing devils advocate here, but it says he was taken into custody “for providing false information to law enforcement” and then was later charged with “false information, maximum gross weight of vehicles, reckless driving, driving under suspension and other offenses.”
The driver was horribly unsafe here. But even that far overloaded, they seemed to be just as concerned with his other offenses, such as suspended DL, expired registration, etc.
Thanks for the example.
07-25-2019, 01:57 PM
#26
Just because you cant see the damage, doesn't mean the iceberg didn't sink the Titanic. I have personally seen RV's get called onto the scales in Nebraska, which means, yes, it does happen.
Right from the Troopers mouth.
Right from the Troopers mouth.
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RLXXI (07-25-2019)
07-25-2019, 02:00 PM
#27
Senior Member
They'll say almost anything to make a sale. I've looked at toy-haulers with GVWR's well north of #16K and 3500 on the pin, and been told my 350 SRW will "Pull it just fine".
07-25-2019, 02:15 PM
#28
Just because you cant see the damage, doesn't mean the iceberg didn't sink the Titanic. I have personally seen RV's get called onto the scales in Nebraska, which means, yes, it does happen.
Right from the Troopers mouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLXoR34SaOw
Right from the Troopers mouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLXoR34SaOw
So, what I got, is that they are concerned about tire rating and registered weight. They “could” give leeway of up to 1,000 lbs overweight. (He said it, not me.)
So (according to the video) I have a 7000 GVWR truck, but have 8k on my registration. So I am good there, legally, if I’m overweight.
My tires are passenger tires, rated at 2601 per, so 5202 or 4733 (after multiplied by .91). My axle is rated at 3800 but my tires are good for another 900+ lbs. Some upgrade to load range E tires.
So the tires are my weak spot. But still, by Indiana legal standards, I can be overloaded up to my 8k registered weight, as long as I don’t exceed the 4,733 lbs per axle.
Believe me, I am not exceeding my GVWR, nor do I have any reason to do so. Just going by the video.
Again, thank you for the conversation and posts. This is all very informative.
07-25-2019, 02:39 PM
#29
Senile member
I get that it’s negligence on the part of the owner. Still after all the over loaded people traveling on the road and we meet at campsites, I nor anyone here, has meet someone that has gotten into trouble for being in a wreck or being overloaded. Insurance covers every time. Even when it seems they shouldn’t. Please cite examples of an individual getting hung out to dry or having anything stick after wrecking, while towing an overloaded trailer. I see plenty of commercial examples but no recreational ones.
Thanks for the convo. We don’t disagree that we shouldn’t drive overloaded. Just haven’t seen any evidence of court cases.
Thanks for the convo. We don’t disagree that we shouldn’t drive overloaded. Just haven’t seen any evidence of court cases.
07-25-2019, 03:51 PM
#30
Senior Member
I tried towing a 24 ft x 8ft empty car trailer behind my 2016 F150, and then I towed it with half of my house in it, and I never clenched my buttcheeks so hard in my life. Towing capacity should be taken as a max, and use a 75% rule to be safe. If its 10,000 try to keep it around 7500lbs or maybe 8000 and you'll feel like it's not gonna kill your truck or make it look like that BMW that was towing another BMW and trailer wagged so bad they both flipped (you guys must have seen that video)