Payload - Why is this Concept Difficult
09-05-2018, 12:44 PM
#41
Senior Member
Not both at the same time, hopefully.
I also have a lot more faith that GVWR is backed by engineering; most speed limits in the US are far too low from an engineering standpoint. For example, I just came back from a trip to Colorado, and on I-70 headed back to Denver, I felt like I was going to get run over if I went any slower than 10 MPH over the posted limit in several places, and I'd have been comfortable going faster if not for the speed limit and being in a rental with unknown service history and cheap tires (not to mention Florida tags). I'd bet $50 that if you did a proper speed study on those roads, you'd end up with higher speed limits. Another example: Montana interstates got more dangerous when they reinstituted a daytime speed limit due to political pressure, rather than allowing "reasonable and prudent" speeds.
If we fixed the too-low speed limits, we'd also end up with fewer distracted drivers because rather than feeling like you're putting along and have capacity to do other things (eat, put on makeup, send emails, read the paper, etc.), drivers would recognize that they needed to be focused on the road. Unfortunately, that doesn't look like it's likely to happen.
I also have a lot more faith that GVWR is backed by engineering; most speed limits in the US are far too low from an engineering standpoint. For example, I just came back from a trip to Colorado, and on I-70 headed back to Denver, I felt like I was going to get run over if I went any slower than 10 MPH over the posted limit in several places, and I'd have been comfortable going faster if not for the speed limit and being in a rental with unknown service history and cheap tires (not to mention Florida tags). I'd bet $50 that if you did a proper speed study on those roads, you'd end up with higher speed limits. Another example: Montana interstates got more dangerous when they reinstituted a daytime speed limit due to political pressure, rather than allowing "reasonable and prudent" speeds.
If we fixed the too-low speed limits, we'd also end up with fewer distracted drivers because rather than feeling like you're putting along and have capacity to do other things (eat, put on makeup, send emails, read the paper, etc.), drivers would recognize that they needed to be focused on the road. Unfortunately, that doesn't look like it's likely to happen.
Considering those sections had flat to decreasing collision rates for about 10 years prior it 'seems' pretty related that the increased speed limits caused more collisions and more damage per collision.
Just food for thought.
***Not that I propose we lower the speed limits lol
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GossipIsBad (09-12-2018)
09-05-2018, 03:41 PM
#42
You are overly complicating things and clearly obsessed with GVWR/payload/etc considering you even put it in your signature for some reason...
Page 18 of the guide will show you your GCWR, which doesn't really matter since you'll probably run out of payload first.
Why are you making it so complicated? You're basically just pissing everyone off with frustration from your ranting that doens't really make sense.
Page 18 of the guide will show you your GCWR, which doesn't really matter since you'll probably run out of payload first.
Why are you making it so complicated? You're basically just pissing everyone off with frustration from your ranting that doens't really make sense.
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ikanode (02-20-2019)
09-05-2018, 04:24 PM
#43
-Just explain payload in the door jamb means ( occupants + addons + cargo + WD hitch + tongue weight ) can't exceed that number. SIMPLE.
-Max trailer weight is in the towing guide, find your truck on the charts and it's printed right there. EASY.
-Whichever limit you hit first is your limit. Done. Anything else is just doing it the hard way.
And if you're worried about that last 100 lbs of payload or trailer weight, you have the wrong truck/trailer combo. Upgrade the truck or get a smaller trailer.
09-07-2018, 12:44 PM
#44
GVWR is in the door jamb. GVWR and gear ratio are on your window sticker. GCWR is in the towing guide. Don't go by the fleet stuff.
What exactly are you trying to tow that's making this so difficult for you? Do you have a trailer already? Are you considering one? What is its tongue weight? If you don't know this, then you can't even tell if you're already exceeding your payload, or GVWR or GAWR or not, so trying to figure out the GCWR is pointless if you've already exceeded any of those.
Your payload of 1907 - 300 for driver and passenger and gear (very light number here) and -100 for WD hitch leaves you with 1507 lbs payload leftover. Divide by 0.13 for 13% TW and you're at 11,592 lbs. Add the approximate 5300lbs of your truck and you're at 16,292. All rough numbers but I'm pretty sure this points to the towing guide being the correct number like I've been saying. Ignore that fleet stuff.
What exactly are you trying to tow that's making this so difficult for you? Do you have a trailer already? Are you considering one? What is its tongue weight? If you don't know this, then you can't even tell if you're already exceeding your payload, or GVWR or GAWR or not, so trying to figure out the GCWR is pointless if you've already exceeded any of those.
Your payload of 1907 - 300 for driver and passenger and gear (very light number here) and -100 for WD hitch leaves you with 1507 lbs payload leftover. Divide by 0.13 for 13% TW and you're at 11,592 lbs. Add the approximate 5300lbs of your truck and you're at 16,292. All rough numbers but I'm pretty sure this points to the towing guide being the correct number like I've been saying. Ignore that fleet stuff.
09-07-2018, 01:04 PM
#45
I personally don't buy new trucks. I only buy used and with that said there are hardly ever any window stickers. If they print the label with payload, why not just print the payload, GVWR, GCWR, gear ratio, etc right on the door jamb? Heck, would simplify my searches quite a bit and probably make people safer on the road instead of some folks that don't research this bc they don't have the manual, window sticker etc.
The white sticker also shows an axle code, google it. There's your axle ratio. (or look here http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php). If you have FX4, it's a 3.73 elocker.
Now you have everything but GCWR. Google "Ford Towing Guide". Select your year, find the towing table and lookup your truck based on configuration and gear ratio.
Towing guides come after the trucks have been build because the SAE testing takes longer, that's why GCWR not on the sticker. But in most cases, you run out of payload before you hit GCWR so it doesn't matter unless it's a farm wagon.
You can also lookup truck specs with the VIN using many websites including this one (on top, under tools).
Last edited by BlackBoost; 09-07-2018 at 01:10 PM.
09-07-2018, 07:02 PM
#46
He said he only buys used. For people who buy used, there may not be a payload sticker on the door jamb, or anywhere else, depending on the year of the vehicle. My '04 F-150 doesn't have one.
09-07-2018, 09:43 PM
#47
Payload and GVWR are already on the stickers on the door jamb.
The white sticker also shows an axle code, google it. There's your axle ratio. (or look here http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php). If you have FX4, it's a 3.73 elocker.
Now you have everything but GCWR. Google "Ford Towing Guide". Select your year, find the towing table and lookup your truck based on configuration and gear ratio.
Towing guides come after the trucks have been build because the SAE testing takes longer, that's why GCWR not on the sticker. But in most cases, you run out of payload before you hit GCWR so it doesn't matter unless it's a farm wagon.
You can also lookup truck specs with the VIN using many websites including this one (on top, under tools).
The white sticker also shows an axle code, google it. There's your axle ratio. (or look here http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php). If you have FX4, it's a 3.73 elocker.
Now you have everything but GCWR. Google "Ford Towing Guide". Select your year, find the towing table and lookup your truck based on configuration and gear ratio.
Towing guides come after the trucks have been build because the SAE testing takes longer, that's why GCWR not on the sticker. But in most cases, you run out of payload before you hit GCWR so it doesn't matter unless it's a farm wagon.
You can also lookup truck specs with the VIN using many websites including this one (on top, under tools).
09-10-2018, 11:23 AM
#48
I already answered that. SAE testing takes longer and the trucks are already leaving the factory. Plus, standards for towing can change, and they have before. Therefore, an online resource can be easily changed, stickers can't. The information on the stickers are already set when the truck is build based on its weight. What it can tow (NOT payload/hitch weight) can always be increased or decreased based on long-term testing.
09-10-2018, 11:41 AM
#49
I disagree because that's overcomplicating things. Easier for them to figure it out themselves.
-Just explain payload in the door jamb means ( occupants + addons + cargo + WD hitch + tongue weight ) can't exceed that number. SIMPLE.
-Max trailer weight is in the towing guide, find your truck on the charts and it's printed right there. EASY.
-Whichever limit you hit first is your limit. Done. Anything else is just doing it the hard way.
And if you're worried about that last 100 lbs of payload or trailer weight, you have the wrong truck/trailer combo. Upgrade the truck or get a smaller trailer.
-Just explain payload in the door jamb means ( occupants + addons + cargo + WD hitch + tongue weight ) can't exceed that number. SIMPLE.
-Max trailer weight is in the towing guide, find your truck on the charts and it's printed right there. EASY.
-Whichever limit you hit first is your limit. Done. Anything else is just doing it the hard way.
And if you're worried about that last 100 lbs of payload or trailer weight, you have the wrong truck/trailer combo. Upgrade the truck or get a smaller trailer.
Perhaps you completely missed the part about relevance of experience. When someone has a good or bad experience towing something, it makes a difference what F150 they have. Putting the GVWR / payload in the sig. saves a lot of guessing and wasted time.
09-10-2018, 01:01 PM
#50
Senior Member
Payload and GVWR are already on the stickers on the door jamb.
The white sticker also shows an axle code, google it. There's your axle ratio. (or look here http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php). If you have FX4, it's a 3.73 elocker.
Now you have everything but GCWR. Google "Ford Towing Guide". Select your year, find the towing table and lookup your truck based on configuration and gear ratio.
Towing guides come after the trucks have been build because the SAE testing takes longer, that's why GCWR not on the sticker. But in most cases, you run out of payload before you hit GCWR so it doesn't matter unless it's a farm wagon.
You can also lookup truck specs with the VIN using many websites including this one (on top, under tools).
The white sticker also shows an axle code, google it. There's your axle ratio. (or look here http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php). If you have FX4, it's a 3.73 elocker.
Now you have everything but GCWR. Google "Ford Towing Guide". Select your year, find the towing table and lookup your truck based on configuration and gear ratio.
Towing guides come after the trucks have been build because the SAE testing takes longer, that's why GCWR not on the sticker. But in most cases, you run out of payload before you hit GCWR so it doesn't matter unless it's a farm wagon.
You can also lookup truck specs with the VIN using many websites including this one (on top, under tools).