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Atwowheelguy, thanks for the spreadsheet, and acdii, thanks for your wonderful posts and your ability to break these posts down so people (like myself) with less knowledge can learn. And all of you that contribute, learning a lot from everyone.
Now I'm going to ask a question that "I think" has an evident answer, but need to have clarification on it. So as not to draw the ire of those that would recommend an F250 (which won't fit in the garage) these numbers are made up. I'm just trying to understand the principles of payload and WD.
Suppose I have a payload of 1500 lbs and a TW on a TT of 1000 lbs (which includes the WD hitch, which is not hooked up yet.). When I hook up the WD hitch, 33% of the TW gets transferred to the TT axles. So with 333 lbs transferred to the TT axles, this adds 333 lbs to the GVW of the TT, but also adds back in 333 lbs to the TV payload. This effectively leaves me with 833 lbs of payload left for driver, passengers, bed cargo, etc. This is how I view the trade off using a WD hitch. Am I right, or is my thinking flawed?
David E
For a more accurate picture, look at the spreadsheet above your post, and the one below, that is closer to actual than 33%. On mine I am only able to transfer 80 pounds back to the trailer, while moving 160-180 to the front axle. The difficult part is scaling the truck alone with everything you think you will take with, but you never know what that will be until you are actually packed and ready to roll. It also helps to know how much the passengers weigh.
I thanked atwowheelguy for the spreadsheet, but downloaded it for further study at a later date. Did not look at it very carefully prior to posting my last question. Takes a bit of study, but does make sense. The spreadsheet is going to be very helpful when I finally decide on a TV and TT, and am determining weight distribution in both.
Right now I am trying to decide on TT, and TV I need to tow it, so have no "yellow stickers" or scale weights to plug in. I guess my basic question is, when adding TW to the TV, when using the WD hitch, you gain "some" payload back, but at the cost of driving up the GVW of the TT. I know this sounds like a basic question, but isn't that what a WD hitch does, whether it be 33% or only 80 lbs? Understand the spreadsheet will help a lot when loading the TT and TV. But right now trying to determine (roughly) if I have the right TV for the TT we would like to purchase. Thanks again for your feedback.
David E
It will, but the only way to know how much it will is with the scales. You can run numbers all day, but without actual weights, its just a numbers game.
I stick by a simple rule of thumb. For a given GVWR of a trailer, multiply by .15. That's how much payload you may need for that trailer. Shop for the trailer first, find the ones you like, then get the GVWR off the sticker attached to that trailer and go from there. Use the 15% weight when shopping for the truck, add yourself and passenger weight to that 15% weight, and anything else you might consider taking.
Check the yellow stickers and find a truck you like with a payload tht falls in that weight and you are good to go.
You most likely wont see 15% on the ball, a well balanced trailer should come out around 13%, so keep that in mind as well if you do find a truck that is a little light on payload for the 15% plus people, but has enough buffer for 13% and people.
For the most part if you find a trailer in the 7000-7800 GVWR range, then you could get by with a truck of 1800# payload and tow it just fine. You can see by the spreadsheet numbers where mine falls.
Ford has totally changed the "What can I tow?" game with the aluminum models. My new Supercab has a payload of over 2,300 pounds. This does NOT mean that I can tow a 15,000 pound trailer with 1,950 pounds of tongue weight (.13 X 15,000) Payload is NOT the limiting factor that it used to be. Better look at all the ratings, hitch, tires, rear axle, towing guide, etc. to get the safe maximum trailer weight. Personally, I will limit my trailers to the 6,000 pound range and enjoy the extra payload for other things.
Ford has totally changed the "What can I tow?" game with the aluminum models. My new Supercab has a payload of over 2,300 pounds. This does NOT mean that I can tow a 15,000 pound trailer with 1,950 pounds of tongue weight (.13 X 15,000) Payload is NOT the limiting factor that it used to be. Better look at all the ratings, hitch, tires, rear axle, towing guide, etc. to get the safe maximum trailer weight. Personally, I will limit my trailers to the 6,000 pound range and enjoy the extra payload for other things.
this is true in some cases but a Lariat Supercrew with the same config as my 2014 is within about 50 lbs of my payload. I have looked at a few. Mine is 1539 lbs being a 2014 Max-tow truck and the new ones were ~1575. They lightened the trucks by 700 lbs but also reduced the GVWR by 650.
The benefit of the aluminum trucks is that they no longer play the silly GVWR games like they used too. Physically a 2014 Max tow and a 2014 with 20" wheels are the same truck and have the same GAWR's but one is 7700 lbs of GVWR and the other is 7200. Now all the trucks of the same config(cab/bed/engine) have the same GVWR. You can walk onto the lot and pick any 4x4 Crew cab ecoboost and get a 7000/7050 lb GVWR.
From the Ford brochure from 2013, a plain jane supercab with the 5.0 V-8 has a base payload of 1,870 pounds. Same configuration for my 2017 yields 2,312 pounds. Those 442 pounds may not sound like much but they represent about 3,000 pounds more trailer weight based on the 13 Percent figure. At that point, payload becomes secondary to several other ratings. Like I said, the huge increase in payload (not GVWR) changes how we need to look at available trailer weights. I am surprised how little the load carrying ability changed for the SuperCrew models. It sure changed a bunch for the XL series. We "Used to" run out of payload long before any other ratings. Not so today.
From the Ford brochure from 2013, a plain jane supercab with the 5.0 V-8 has a base payload of 1,870 pounds. Same configuration for my 2017 yields 2,312 pounds. Those 442 pounds may not sound like much but they represent about 3,000 pounds more trailer weight based on the 13 Percent figure. At that point, payload becomes secondary to several other ratings. Like I said, the huge increase in payload (not GVWR) changes how we need to look at available trailer weights. I am surprised how little the load carrying ability changed for the SuperCrew models. It sure changed a bunch for the XL series. We "Used to" run out of payload long before any other ratings. Not so today.
This has been such an interesting and informative thread to read through as someone who just purchased her first trailer - although I'll have a very different % tongue weight, as it's a 2-Horse BP. I have plenty of experience driving other rigs, but this is the first time I've gone down the rabbit hole of researching and estimating numbers for my own '13 XLT (5.0L V8 4X4 w/ tow & 7350# GVWR packages).
I'm actually going to pick the trailer up in GA this weekend (I live in NY), so all my calculations thus far are estimates. I found a neat tongue weight calculator for BPs on Double D Trailer's website that puts my 2760# (empty) trailer at 19.2% TW, or 530# (link to my results). I'd be curious to see what others here get using that tool, and how close it is to their actual weight ticket numbers.
I've used a variation of atwowheelguy's awesome spreadsheet to finalize some estimates for various configs, and I'm interested to see what others think of them. Take a look if you feel like it.
09-06-2017, 08:23 PM
