Major sway
08-06-2017, 11:46 PM
#101
my 14 would only move when a Semi passed me or passing a Semi, but with the 16 even cars move me. It isn't swaying, its the usual push from a bow wave. The swaying when going over 65 is cured, and whatever swaying I do get is originating from the truck when going over uneven pavement.
Truck does get better gas mileage though, the 14 got about 7-8 and this one is 9-11
Truck does get better gas mileage though, the 14 got about 7-8 and this one is 9-11
What I can say is that my new 2016 truck is 660 lbs lighter and you will feel that in it's better handling and it getting blown around by wind more when NOT towing.
The new 2016 rig tows better in every way. In higher sidewinds, I would be fighting the bow wave quite a bit with my 2012 truck and fighting gusts.
I don't fight gusts as bad now with the 2016. With high side winds, when any vehicle, car or truck, blocks the wind and then passes allowing the wind to hit me again, I feel it in the new 2016 but it is controlled and mild.
Only once was I white knuckling it because gusts were very high, around 50 - 60 mph and probably should had just pulled off and waited for the wind to die down. I also didn't have the sway/spring bar tensioned enough for sway control. After I took them up another chain link, no issues.
In normal lighter side winds, I get no bow wave from passing trucks or cars.
With the better handling of the new rig whether because of the Blue Ox Sway Pro or not, the stiffer and higher rating for the rear axle (in comparison to the actual weight of the lighter 2016), and the higher payload, the 2016 has proven to be a better truck for towing for ME, when towing my 29'1" Jayco Jay Flight 26BH that weighs in dry from the factory at 5050 lbs and wet and loaded about 6500 lbs.
The truck has better handling, and more power (thanks to it's lighter weight and bump in the 5.0L's HP and Torque).
I really think hitch shank adjustment, hitch head and spring bar adjustment, and trailer loading is the key to getting a good towing experience. These new trucks have a stiffer suspension than the 2009 - 2014 trucks and the hitch receiver sits higher, so readjusting the hitch system is a must when transfering from an older generation to a newer generation truck.
Go to rv.net and see all the happy people towing with their new 2015+ trucks.
BTW, I was getting about 10.5 mpg with the 2012 5.0L pulling the same 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH travel trailer. Now I'm getting an average of 11.0 mpg. Both trucks had 5.0L w/3.73 and 36 gallon gas tank. My last trip saw an all time high of 11.5 mpg! My previous 2010 F150 , configured the same, Screw 4WD 145" WB but had 5.4L 3V and 3.55 gears only got between 9.5 mpg and 10 mpg.
Last edited by Mike Up; 08-06-2017 at 11:57 PM.
08-07-2017, 10:38 AM
#102
Well internet here is really slow, so no pic uploads yet. However after 460 miles of Interstate, I can say that I got the hitch as close as it will ever get, but it is NOT enough for this truck.
There is something with the suspension on the 15+ trucks that make it not as stable as the prior gen when towing. With the same hitch, on the same trailer, with weight being within 100 pounds on the trailer loadout, my 14 would only move when a Semi passed me or passing a Semi, but with the 16 even cars move me. It isn't swaying, its the usual push from a bow wave. The swaying when going over 65 is cured, and whatever swaying I do get is originating from the truck when going over uneven pavement.
The 16 is just not as comfortable towing as the 14 was. Whether is was the extra weight of the steel body, or that it sat an inch lower, I don't know, but the 16 does not tow as smoothly. Looks like future additions will be a Hellwig and Equalizer hitch, and hopefully the pair will cure the squirrelyness it still has. Overall it tows like a beast, and handle OK, but it could be much better than it is. When I towed this same trailer through 5 states and over the Rockies in 3 days and end each day feeling good, today I am beat, it was just a bit too much staying ahead of the rig.
Truck does get better gas mileage though, the 14 got about 7-8 and this one is 9-11.
There is something with the suspension on the 15+ trucks that make it not as stable as the prior gen when towing. With the same hitch, on the same trailer, with weight being within 100 pounds on the trailer loadout, my 14 would only move when a Semi passed me or passing a Semi, but with the 16 even cars move me. It isn't swaying, its the usual push from a bow wave. The swaying when going over 65 is cured, and whatever swaying I do get is originating from the truck when going over uneven pavement.
The 16 is just not as comfortable towing as the 14 was. Whether is was the extra weight of the steel body, or that it sat an inch lower, I don't know, but the 16 does not tow as smoothly. Looks like future additions will be a Hellwig and Equalizer hitch, and hopefully the pair will cure the squirrelyness it still has. Overall it tows like a beast, and handle OK, but it could be much better than it is. When I towed this same trailer through 5 states and over the Rockies in 3 days and end each day feeling good, today I am beat, it was just a bit too much staying ahead of the rig.
Truck does get better gas mileage though, the 14 got about 7-8 and this one is 9-11.
. My 2500 Duramax I had previously towing the same trailer never noticed the wind. I am keeping our 2016 F150 because I only tow 4 to 5 times a year with the longest trip 180 miles.
Last edited by Freedom1955; 08-07-2017 at 03:04 PM.
08-07-2017, 11:25 AM
#103
5.0 DOHC V8
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Please indulge me...
acdii has installed an excellent shock absorber (as have many of us here) in place of the factory garbage Ford uses. Steering, braking, cornering are all improved because of it. Yet his truck doesn't seem to tow as well as MikeUp's. Then there's Freedom1955 with his truck's FX4 package and it's allegedly-improved shock absorber... yet it seems to make no difference in how his truck handles a tow combination.
Which leads to the following questions:
1. Is the Blue Ox that far superior?
2. Or can *front axle wheel alignment* also be a factor? Specifically, toe-in settings. And! let us not forget the finicky electric power rack and pinion steering, with which there is a SSM for some manufacturing dates (a software update to smooth the on-center and off-center boost efforts).
From Post #33, Page 4 in this thread
Additional power steering TSB search results here
Electric power steering SSM search results here
I would suggest that when WDH hitch quality is assured and then WDH setup variations have been exhausted, one might look into either/or or both toe-alignment settings and then double check build dates for one's power steering. If these aren't within spec, the symptoms can certainly lead to instability.
acdii has installed an excellent shock absorber (as have many of us here) in place of the factory garbage Ford uses. Steering, braking, cornering are all improved because of it. Yet his truck doesn't seem to tow as well as MikeUp's. Then there's Freedom1955 with his truck's FX4 package and it's allegedly-improved shock absorber... yet it seems to make no difference in how his truck handles a tow combination.
Which leads to the following questions:
1. Is the Blue Ox that far superior?
2. Or can *front axle wheel alignment* also be a factor? Specifically, toe-in settings. And! let us not forget the finicky electric power rack and pinion steering, with which there is a SSM for some manufacturing dates (a software update to smooth the on-center and off-center boost efforts).
SSM 45685: Effective Mar 3 2016
2015-2016 F-150 - Steering Pull/Drift/Wander - No Diagnostic Trouble Codes - Built On Or Before 9/24/2015
"Some 2015-2016 F-150 vehicles built on or before 9/24/2015 may exhibit a drift, pull, and/or wander concern. To address the concern, reprogram the Power Steering Control Module (PSCM) to the latest level using IDS version 99.03 or higher and attempt to re-verify the customer concern. If the customer concern is still present, then continue with normal WSM diagnostics. The updated calibration has improvements to the Electronic Power Assist Steering (EPAS) compensation. Make sure you are connected to the internet when entering module programming to obtain the latest updates."
2015-2016 F-150 - Steering Pull/Drift/Wander - No Diagnostic Trouble Codes - Built On Or Before 9/24/2015
"Some 2015-2016 F-150 vehicles built on or before 9/24/2015 may exhibit a drift, pull, and/or wander concern. To address the concern, reprogram the Power Steering Control Module (PSCM) to the latest level using IDS version 99.03 or higher and attempt to re-verify the customer concern. If the customer concern is still present, then continue with normal WSM diagnostics. The updated calibration has improvements to the Electronic Power Assist Steering (EPAS) compensation. Make sure you are connected to the internet when entering module programming to obtain the latest updates."
Additional power steering TSB search results here
Electric power steering SSM search results here
I would suggest that when WDH hitch quality is assured and then WDH setup variations have been exhausted, one might look into either/or or both toe-alignment settings and then double check build dates for one's power steering. If these aren't within spec, the symptoms can certainly lead to instability.
08-07-2017, 12:42 PM
#104
I really can't say if my issue is sway or not as looking at the trailer in the mirror when it gets squirrely, the back end is not moving, or if it is, it moves very little. Granted my trailer is border line dual sway bar for the round bar setup I have, so I really think my issue comes down to the actual hitch just not having enough anti sway capability for this truck. With the 14 a single bar was all it needed, and held fast in 30+ crosswinds towing across the open highways in Utah through Iowa. I really can't get the hitch any more perfectly setup than it is now, so going to upgrade the hitch. I just talked to a fellow RV'r who is towing a new double slider with a pre-07 F150 and using a Husky Centerline TS. He said it pulls like a dream with no noise. Going to walk around and see what others are using. The Blue Ox is just a bit too pricey for me at this time, unless I can find a can't pass it up deal.
08-07-2017, 02:11 PM
#105
I really can't say if my issue is sway or not as looking at the trailer in the mirror when it gets squirrely, the back end is not moving, or if it is, it moves very little. Granted my trailer is border line dual sway bar for the round bar setup I have, so I really think my issue comes down to the actual hitch just not having enough anti sway capability for this truck. With the 14 a single bar was all it needed, and held fast in 30+ crosswinds towing across the open highways in Utah through Iowa. I really can't get the hitch any more perfectly setup than it is now, so going to upgrade the hitch. I just talked to a fellow RV'r who is towing a new double slider with a pre-07 F150 and using a Husky Centerline TS. He said it pulls like a dream with no noise. Going to walk around and see what others are using. The Blue Ox is just a bit too pricey for me at this time, unless I can find a can't pass it up deal.
My truck is stock but I purposely didn't get a truck with those soft FX4 shocks.
I don't know your tires, but maybe they have excessive flex in the sidewalls where a LT tire would make a world of difference.
I know with my 2012 F150, I had so much flex in it's 18" tires, that I really benefited a lot from the change over to BF Goodrich T/A KO2 tires that were a 10 ply load range E, LT tire. With my 2016 (P)assenger 17" tires (WRANGLER FORTITUDE HT), they aren't bad at all and didn't see the need right away to go with a LT tire.
So maybe it's your tires.
Last edited by Mike Up; 08-07-2017 at 02:15 PM.
08-07-2017, 02:49 PM
#106
@ acdii
For what it's worth, here is my experience with the Blue Ox on our set up.
2016 SCrew XLT 5.0 3.55
5100's on the rear (man did that help
Blue Ox with 750lb bars, typically on 8 links.
Front of the truck returns to unhitched height or within 1/8 inch difference with the bars tensioned.
P rated tires set to 45 PSI cold.
Trailer box is 27.5 feet
Trailer total length is about 31 feet.
The sweet spot for my trailer tongue weight is right around 700lb. Trailer is usually 5500 - 6000lb wet. I am well within all weight specs, even with family of 5 in the truck.
I get zero "natural trailer sway'. By that I mean on smooth roads I can travel comfortably at 60 - 65 MPH and the trailer tracks perfectly straight. Add in grooves or a bumpy road, the trailer may deflect a bit, but always immediately returns to straight.
That being said it did take a while for me to learn exactly how to load the trailer, particularly the placement of heavy objects like the bikes...
All that being said... We recently drove to the Oregon coast for 14 days, which involved lots of interstate travel. As others have experienced, I get sucked over and pushed back when a Semi passes by. Even larger trucks can have this effect. The trailer doesn't really sway, just moves.
As we approached Hood River and were traveling along the Columbia River I had to slow to about 45 - 50 mph. I am guessing by the sea state on river the wind was blowing steady at 20+ knots, gusting to 30+ (25 - 35 mph wind). It was hitting us almost at 90 degrees.
This didn't cause any uncontrollable sway, but it certainly pushed the trailer and truck around. Not a good feeling.
I am still trying to dial in my set up to reduce the effect wind and trucks have. I have gotten use to a semi passing, but I would rather get my set up to be more solid and not have to anticipate and react.
All this is to say, in my experience, the Blue Ox may not stop the movement of your truck and trailer when acted upon by external forces, such as wind and traffic. It could be something else in the set up.
I have read multiple accounts of people saying pre 2015 F150's did not do this, or at least not as much. Problem is, it's all so subjective and every set up is different. I would be interested in comparing a shorter trailer with my truck and see what happens. Maybe it just comes down to, too big of a 'sail' behind a f150...
For what it's worth, here is my experience with the Blue Ox on our set up.
2016 SCrew XLT 5.0 3.55
5100's on the rear (man did that help
Blue Ox with 750lb bars, typically on 8 links.
Front of the truck returns to unhitched height or within 1/8 inch difference with the bars tensioned.
P rated tires set to 45 PSI cold.
Trailer box is 27.5 feet
Trailer total length is about 31 feet.
The sweet spot for my trailer tongue weight is right around 700lb. Trailer is usually 5500 - 6000lb wet. I am well within all weight specs, even with family of 5 in the truck.
I get zero "natural trailer sway'. By that I mean on smooth roads I can travel comfortably at 60 - 65 MPH and the trailer tracks perfectly straight. Add in grooves or a bumpy road, the trailer may deflect a bit, but always immediately returns to straight.
That being said it did take a while for me to learn exactly how to load the trailer, particularly the placement of heavy objects like the bikes...
All that being said... We recently drove to the Oregon coast for 14 days, which involved lots of interstate travel. As others have experienced, I get sucked over and pushed back when a Semi passes by. Even larger trucks can have this effect. The trailer doesn't really sway, just moves.
As we approached Hood River and were traveling along the Columbia River I had to slow to about 45 - 50 mph. I am guessing by the sea state on river the wind was blowing steady at 20+ knots, gusting to 30+ (25 - 35 mph wind). It was hitting us almost at 90 degrees.
This didn't cause any uncontrollable sway, but it certainly pushed the trailer and truck around. Not a good feeling.
I am still trying to dial in my set up to reduce the effect wind and trucks have. I have gotten use to a semi passing, but I would rather get my set up to be more solid and not have to anticipate and react.
All this is to say, in my experience, the Blue Ox may not stop the movement of your truck and trailer when acted upon by external forces, such as wind and traffic. It could be something else in the set up.
I have read multiple accounts of people saying pre 2015 F150's did not do this, or at least not as much. Problem is, it's all so subjective and every set up is different. I would be interested in comparing a shorter trailer with my truck and see what happens. Maybe it just comes down to, too big of a 'sail' behind a f150...
08-07-2017, 03:16 PM
#107
I can tell you guys this if the winds not blowing my truck pulls our 26.5 ft "box" 5100lbs dry camper very well.
On another note I just realized the last time I towed I had quite a bit of firewood in the bed close to the tailgate. Not sure how much weight but probably 150-200 lbs and it towed great that way going but coming back without the firewood we got blown around. I thought it was just windier coming back but now I'm not sure.
On another note I just realized the last time I towed I had quite a bit of firewood in the bed close to the tailgate. Not sure how much weight but probably 150-200 lbs and it towed great that way going but coming back without the firewood we got blown around. I thought it was just windier coming back but now I'm not sure.
08-07-2017, 04:17 PM
#108
I have read multiple accounts of people saying pre 2015 F150's did not do this, or at least not as much. Problem is, it's all so subjective and every set up is different. I would be interested in comparing a shorter trailer with my truck and see what happens. Maybe it just comes down to, too big of a 'sail' behind a f150...
If you don't want to get blown around as much, you need to get LT tires so that the truck doesn't wallow back and forth on weak spongy sidewalls, and get a heavier 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Then again, if you get a larger trailer that offsets their heavier weight, you'll be right back in the same situation.
Last edited by Mike Up; 08-07-2017 at 04:52 PM.
08-07-2017, 05:18 PM
#109
They're spreading BS, my 2012 most certainly did this and worse.
If you don't want to get blown around as much, you need to get LT tires so that the truck doesn't wallow back and forth on weak spongy sidewalls, and get a heavier 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Then again, if you get a larger trailer that offsets their heavier weight, you'll be right back in the same situation.
If you don't want to get blown around as much, you need to get LT tires so that the truck doesn't wallow back and forth on weak spongy sidewalls, and get a heavier 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Then again, if you get a larger trailer that offsets their heavier weight, you'll be right back in the same situation.
08-07-2017, 05:22 PM
#110
in addition to the lt tires get some supersprings. i don't tow. but i have put 2000+lbs in the back of my old truck with no sway or any issues. also the truck stayed flatter even unloaded. no sway or body roll at all.