Looking at a Jayco TT
 

Hello, looking for some advice. I've been looking for a while at TTs and following this forum very closely. We found one we kind of like, but I'm a little worried about the overall length. The trailer seems to be okay weight wise for the truck.

According to the specs (I'll have to get it officially weighed):

- Dry - 6,930lbs / Tongue 835 lbs (~12% tongue).
- GTWR - 9,250 / Tongue 1,110 if fully loaded at 12%

- My hitch rating is 1,210 so wit the TT maxed out I would still be under.
- My Payload is 1,865 so even fully loaded I would have 750 lbs remaining for the hitch, family and gear if the trailer is maxed.

Worth noting the trailer will likely never be maxed as we wouldn't ever be traveling with water tanks full and mostly taking weekend trips. We also tend to pack light as a family - so we would likely have closer to 900 lb leftover payload.

My biggest concern is not weight but the overall length - my truck is a max tow 3.5 EB / 157" WB but this trailer even though a 29' box is still 34' overall.

Is this a concern for a first time tower? We would likely be only towing in the NJ / PA area (50-100 miles) with maybe an occasional tow to the Carolinas once per year (5-600 miles).

Looking for advice if this is feasable with the right setup - and what type of WD setup would be recommended? I know it has the power, but I don't want to be blown all over the road with my family in the truck.

https://www.jayco.com/products/trave...flight/29bhdb/

We just picked up a very similar trailer the 28bhbe. Dealer was over 150 miles away so got a pretty good idea what it will tows like and it was great. Actually towed better than my 25' outback we traded in. The jack is almost 2000 lbs heavier but felt lighter and we actually got a little better mileage. I have fastway E2 10k trunnion WD setup. I love it. Actually make by equalizer which is one of the best in the industry. On the way home we were not blown all over the highway at all the hitch with the integrated brake controller kept the trailer straight as an arrow. It is a long trailer and is going to take some time to get good at maneuvering it. We love it though wouldn't have gone any other way.... until the kids graduate and we step up to a super duty and a 5'er.... hope that helps!

Great information - thank you! I find it interesting it towed better then your shorter Outback TT. Was it with the same WD hitch? I didn't realize trailer stability could vary from trailer to trailer given the same specs (in your case heavier and longer). Why is that?

Are some brands "known" to tow better then others? I was also interested in the Forrest River TTs

Makes it really hard to search because you never know how it will behave until after you purchase it....

I have a 2011 Forest River flagstaff Classic Superlite, 831RLBSS with the "atrium" superslide.

It's a 31' box and 35' bumper to hitch.

I haven't towed it with our 2016 yet (bought in Dec, trailer in storage) but my last truck to tow it was a 1998 K2500 ECLB 6.5 TD:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...m/1237d529.jpg

The f-150 has it all over that truck in specs (+2" wheelbase, +170 hp, +150 lb/ft, +3200 lb tow rating, etc) except for vehicle weight (gmc scaled 6700-7000 lbs wet and loaded vs F150 scaled at 5500 with wife and I on board) and GVWR (8600 lb for GMC vs 7050 for F150). That 1998 was one heavy SOB. Worked for it sometimes, against it others.

Our trailer usually scales right around 7200-7500 lbs ready to roll out. We typically don't carry water either and it's just me, the wife and the dogs.

I use a Husky Centerline hitch. The original one, not the newer "TS". Mine has what they call "active anti-sway", the new one (Centerline TS) does not. Mine: http://www.huskytow.com/product/husk...towing-system/

We tow infrequently, but when we do this is a typical type of trip:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...gander-1-1.jpg

I'm military (Canada) and when they move us around, it's never just around the block!

;)

At any rate, I expect my 2016 to tow at least as well as the old 98 GMC, better in most ways. That map above, I experienced just about everything you can expect for sway conditions. Not even a twitch. A tandem semi traveling faster than me could pull the whole combination towards it sometimes, but never anything to cause concern. You could just feel the "suction" between the two vehicles and I didn't have to do much of anything to correct it. Little pressure on the wheel the other way and it was all good.

A lot of this I attribute to a proper setup. There are a few keys to success IMHO:

You need a quality WD hitch system. You don't necessarily need the one I use, but I highly recommend the centerline (heavy SOB though). Something with sway control is great for added insurance. Weight bar type WD hitches have a certain amount of sway control built into them by the design. The friction of the weight bars on the brackets is what does it. Chain style ones essentially have none and need add on sway control.

Set you trailer brake controller up properly before going anywhere significant. Lots of advice on the internet on how to do that.

You have to take your time and set the hitch head up exactly as the instructions tell you. Accept nothing less.

You also have to ensure you get proper tongue load. Be careful loading the trailer and you need to absolutely get into the 10-15% tongue load range. It's not enough to guess, you have to weigh it. Lots of stuff on the internet on how to weigh tongue load without expensive equipment. You can do it with a 2X4 and a bathroom scale, google for it. Watch your payload (IE: GVWR), that's usually the first number you run into on the F-150. You tongue weight gets subtracted from the payload rating. IOW: tongue load is part of cargo. 7000 lb of trailer at 10% tongue adds 700 lbs of cargo. 15% adds 1.050 to cargo. if you run 1050 tongue and approx 100 lb for a hitch, that's 1150 lb and only leaves you 715 lbs for people and assorted stuff. Families typically run somewhere around 200 lbs for dad, 150 lbs for mom, and 80 lbs a piece for younger kids so there's 510 lbs right off. Chuck a cooler full of ice and food in the bed with bikes and other bits and you're right there for cargo rating/GVWR. All those number I pulled out of the air, but you can see how it can get really close, really fast on the cargo rating if you're not watching it....

Nice to haves:

Rear air bags. I use Firestone Ride Rites. I had them on the GMC and they were great for a little fine tuning and firming up the suspension under load. Adds stability, helps counter sway effects. I have a set in the garage waiting to go on the 2016 in the spring.

E range tires. LT to E range made a noticeable difference on my GMC. LT was fine, but it firmed right up with the E range. They firm up the rear end and help with making the rear end feel more stable and planted. They also help counter sway effects. Empty ride was fine. Again, firm, but fine by me.

All this being said, a 30'+ box is going to be effected by passing semi's, cross winds and various other factors. You can't help it, it's just too much surface area. What you want to do is minimize the effects that do happen so it's essentially a "non-event" for you.

With my setup, I never experience a white knuckle moment. Not one. There were lots of times I had wished the old GMC had more power and I would have to be straight in line with the trailer to remove the weight bars for backing into tight spots, but stability was never an issue.

For the first time tow-er inexperience thing, get out and do some easy pulls. Find an easy route to a 4 lane highway and just get used to the feeling. Feel how it pulls, feel how it brakes. Stay in the slow lane and do the speed up to where you are comfortable. Turn around somewhere easy and go back the same way. Take it to a large empty parking lot on the weekend and practice backing and see how it moves when you turn going forward. Watch the tail and how it moves. Get a feel for where the tail goes as you turn and the size of the arc you need to get it around a turn. If you have some pylons (or something else that will work) take them with you and you can practice making turns and backing. It's a good skill to practice before hitting local streets since you have to always travel across them to get to the highways. I recommend getting "pull through" spots in the beginning so you don't have to deal with backing in to tight camp spots. Once you're happy with pull throughs, you can look at tighter and tighter spots at smaller camp grounds as your skill and confidence builds. I've seen lots of guys try and stuff big trailer in small spots before they're ready and it almost always leads to frustration and stress, or in the worst cases; damage.

Just take it slow at first (not speed, challenging yourself in tight side roads and campgrounds) and build up your skills and you'll be fine.

Good luck and happy towing!

:)

You will be fine. Always best to go to a CAT scale and check your numbers. But I agree E load tires on the truck for a trailer that size. Better to error on the side of caution. Make sure your WDH hitch is the best and the bars are appropriate for the weight. I currently have a Blue Ox Sway Pro and an very happy with it.

I like how you have leftout the axle ratio...2 wheel or 4wheel drive....for the final towiing cap..
Year...guess at a 16...mine has a max of 10100lbs with 3.55 axle 4x4 max tow....my eb 2013 was 11200lbs with 3.73 axle 4x4 max tow....
Also 17100 is max limit truck and trailer?.. maxtowing cap 12200lbs

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...oAOQjyM4kigF3g

Great White - wow - thank you - lots of great reading!

Well, it's all in my signature - but max tow comes with the 3.55 gear set, and its 4x4. Yes, according to Ford it's 12,200 lb rated but we all know that 10% tongue isn't at all realistic - especially with a TT.

Typical optimistic newbee. :)


Count on a wet and loaded trailer weight of about 8,800 pounds, with tongue weight of about 1,144 pounds (13%), and WD hitch weight of about 110 pounds for total hitch weight of 1,244. That leaves only 379 pounds for family and any other weight in the pickup.


In other words, I suspect the CAT scale will say you're overloaded over the GVWR (and payload capacity) of your F-150 in the middle of your third RV trip. Why the third trip? Because both you and DW will remember to bring stuff that you didn't bring on the first two trips.


So if you buy that too-heavy trailer then weigh the rig on a CAT scale while wet and loaded on the road. Stop at a truck stop that has a CAT scale, fill up with gas and weigh the wet and loaded rig, with everybody in the cab when you weigh.


Add the weights on the front and rear axle to get GVW. Compare the GVW to the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Then you will know if you can throw in some more campfire wood or charcoal, and maybe Cousin Suzy, or maybe daughter's best pal, without being overloaded.

If I was an optimistic newbee I would be looking at 12,200 lb trailers because the Ford literature says that's the tow rating for my model truck.

At least I know enough to understand my stickers such as payload (GVWR - curb weight) and max hitch ratings. Some people don't even know the hitch sticker even exists!

If my total hitch weight is 1,244 (hitch included) then how are you calculating only 379lbs leftover payload? I mentioned my Payload sticker reads 1,865 so 1,865 - 1,244 is 621, not 379. Once you add in my whole family then yes, I agree we have around 330 lbs left. This also assumes the trailer is packed to the max GTWR too which, again, I can't really see happening.

I also mentioned easlier we usually pack very light to begin - but I agree everything would have to be officially weighed. I'm only 145lbs, my wife is 125 and my kids are 60lbs combined right now - but that still leaves room.

It all depends on what the actual true hitch percentage is - according to the site this particular model is 11.9% but I know that isn't always true until you get it weighed.

Edit - Smokeywren - wanted to add that I'm not trying to argue, just try to better understand / learn. I do appreciate reading your expertise on other threads. I saw another model later today too that was around 33' and had a 7,500 GTWR (6,115 empty) - maybe I'll keep searching for something slightly lighter. I searched the picture thread and there are a ton of people pulling large 30'+ box size TTs - I know you tend to be conservative but are all these people way over spec then??

They could be. It depends as much on how it is loaded as well as the trailer weight.

As mentioned GVWR is usually the first number that takes the hit.

Tongue weight you can play with a bit to change how much on the truck as long as you don't make it so light as to make it a sway monster. I've read 9% is the absolute bottom number for tongue, but I would be more likely to say 10% is the bare minimum for most any trailer. I try to stay around 12%. I try to scale the trailer a couple times through the season, check the tongue and shift the load if needed to stay around my 12%. My trailer has the fresh tanks behind the axles, so I have a ready and easy means of fine tuning the tongue if shifting cargo isn't enough. I always travel with empty gray and black, unless I'm trying to clean it with the ice cube trick. It's a PITB to adjust tongue the first couple times, but you get the hang of doing it quickly and it keeps my trailer stable and white knuckle free.

:)

The ecoboost trucks are also a little bit deceiving on what you can actually tow. Notice I said "tow" and not "tow within the ratings".

You can get more moving than what is on the "stickers". What you may not be able to do is stop it like you expect or have sway resistance like you expect.

The GVWR is set by the manufacturer depending on how the truck is equipped. Spring, brakes, axles, frame, etc.

The tow rating is a slightly different story. The OEM's have agreed to test and rate the their trucks under SAE J2807 towing test specs. The truck is tested with a standardized load as set out in the testing, and then has to meet certain benchmarks for cooling, braking, sway performance, grade climbing, start on grade, stop on grade, sway control, etc.

Over any of the numbers and you can't expect the performance as laid out by the OEM.

It doesn't mean you can't tow something over the numbers, It means they cant (IE: won't) tell you what and how performance/safety/wear will be affected.

Before the internet towing police get here, I am NOT advocating exceeding the factory ratings.

:)