How much weight is distributed to trailer via weight distributing hitch?
01-19-2019, 08:56 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Pfft yeah...right. You would not say that if you had driven the 16 when set up to the way Ford wants it! It handled like crap until I got all the weight returned back to the front axle!
As far as weight values being moved rearward, it varies on the type of hitch used. With a Husky round bar, very little was moved rearward, around 80 pounds on mine. When I switched to a Blue Ox, quite a bit transferred back.
Here are some real world scale examples with my setup.
These are from my 2016 4WD Lariat, AKA The Red Devil(what a POS that truck was). I only have the 2018 truck weight without the trailer weights, but the setup is identical to the 2016.
The Truck alone
Steer 3240
Drive 2760
Gross 6000
Truck and trailer no bars attached
Steer 3000
Drive 4060
Trailer 5400
Gross 12460 < there is some variance when weights are below 10K per axle, so this value changes
With bars attached, Husky Round Bar
Steer 3100
Drive 3880
Trailer 5440
Gross 12420
Chain tightened one link, far as I could go with it
Steer 3160
Drive 3800
Trailer 5480
Gross 12440
As you can see the Husky bars did not distribute as well as it should, could be due to them being 800 pound bars, and should have been 1000.
Here is the same truck and trailer, though about 120 pounds lighter due to 1/2 tank of water instead of full, and the Blue Ox with 1500 pound bars. I only did one pass since I already knew the empty values of the truck and did this to verify front axle load.
Steer 3240
Drive 3420
Trailer 5640
Gross 12300
As you can see, the BO transferred 240 pounds forward, bringing the steer axle back to it's unloaded weight, and moved 240 pound back to the trailer. This was the only time that truck and trailer towed well. I have the BO setup identically to how it was on the 16 4WD to my 18 RWD, the weights are different due to the lack of the FWD unit. It tows like it isn't even there. I did need to disable the truck sway control, it felt weird when a truck went by the other way, and turning it off, I no longer had the weird feeling like the trailer was wiggling.
Here are the empty weights of the 18 before I put the topper on.
Steer 3040
Drive 2340
Gross 5380
Compared to the 2014, that one had an ARE topper on.
Steer 3180
Drive 2800
Gross 5980
Without the bars
Steer 3000
Drive 4560
Trailer 5200
Gross 12760
With bars
Steer 3180
Drive 4300 < had the entire family in the truck, after this weighing, we took an additional car for some members to stay under GAWR/GVWR
Trailer 5280
Gross 12760
As you can see, even with 700 pounds tongue weight, which is where it was when I scaled the 14, the 800 pound bars were unable to transfer anything more than 80 pounds, yet was able to transfer the front axle back to unloaded weight. The 2014 handled the trailer very well, drove it from Rockford IL to Bryce Canyon, over the IKE gauntlet and back, and was perfectly relaxed the entire trip, except for the sudden hail storm in Colorado, have plenty of dents in the front of the trailer as a reminder.
So depending on the truck, and the hitch, what works on some, may not work on others, and not all hitches transfer weight the same.
As far as weight values being moved rearward, it varies on the type of hitch used. With a Husky round bar, very little was moved rearward, around 80 pounds on mine. When I switched to a Blue Ox, quite a bit transferred back.
Here are some real world scale examples with my setup.
These are from my 2016 4WD Lariat, AKA The Red Devil(what a POS that truck was). I only have the 2018 truck weight without the trailer weights, but the setup is identical to the 2016.
The Truck alone
Steer 3240
Drive 2760
Gross 6000
Truck and trailer no bars attached
Steer 3000
Drive 4060
Trailer 5400
Gross 12460 < there is some variance when weights are below 10K per axle, so this value changes
With bars attached, Husky Round Bar
Steer 3100
Drive 3880
Trailer 5440
Gross 12420
Chain tightened one link, far as I could go with it
Steer 3160
Drive 3800
Trailer 5480
Gross 12440
As you can see the Husky bars did not distribute as well as it should, could be due to them being 800 pound bars, and should have been 1000.
Here is the same truck and trailer, though about 120 pounds lighter due to 1/2 tank of water instead of full, and the Blue Ox with 1500 pound bars. I only did one pass since I already knew the empty values of the truck and did this to verify front axle load.
Steer 3240
Drive 3420
Trailer 5640
Gross 12300
As you can see, the BO transferred 240 pounds forward, bringing the steer axle back to it's unloaded weight, and moved 240 pound back to the trailer. This was the only time that truck and trailer towed well. I have the BO setup identically to how it was on the 16 4WD to my 18 RWD, the weights are different due to the lack of the FWD unit. It tows like it isn't even there. I did need to disable the truck sway control, it felt weird when a truck went by the other way, and turning it off, I no longer had the weird feeling like the trailer was wiggling.
Here are the empty weights of the 18 before I put the topper on.
Steer 3040
Drive 2340
Gross 5380
Compared to the 2014, that one had an ARE topper on.
Steer 3180
Drive 2800
Gross 5980
Without the bars
Steer 3000
Drive 4560
Trailer 5200
Gross 12760
With bars
Steer 3180
Drive 4300 < had the entire family in the truck, after this weighing, we took an additional car for some members to stay under GAWR/GVWR
Trailer 5280
Gross 12760
As you can see, even with 700 pounds tongue weight, which is where it was when I scaled the 14, the 800 pound bars were unable to transfer anything more than 80 pounds, yet was able to transfer the front axle back to unloaded weight. The 2014 handled the trailer very well, drove it from Rockford IL to Bryce Canyon, over the IKE gauntlet and back, and was perfectly relaxed the entire trip, except for the sudden hail storm in Colorado, have plenty of dents in the front of the trailer as a reminder.
So depending on the truck, and the hitch, what works on some, may not work on others, and not all hitches transfer weight the same.
For your 18, I'm not sure if the empty weight had your family in it, so I'm unsure if I can do the same calculation.
01-20-2019, 12:19 PM
#13
Thanks. Let's take the red devil for a moment. You had 1060 lbs of "tongue" weight ((3000+4060)-(3240+2760)). Then with a properly setup blue ox system, it transferred 400 lbs off the truck = ((3000+4060)-(3420+3240)). That's the highest I've seen yet, nearly 40% of the tongue weight?
For your 18, I'm not sure if the empty weight had your family in it, so I'm unsure if I can do the same calculation.
For your 18, I'm not sure if the empty weight had your family in it, so I'm unsure if I can do the same calculation.
01-20-2019, 12:32 PM
#14
Here is a good article about it. https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...sion-bars-441/
I for one will go with what has been tried, tested, and approved for well over 40 years than on a recent new standard that is flawed. So for me, setting up the hitch based on the hitch manufacturers setup guide is the way I will do it. It works, I have tested and proven it works, and have proven the Ford guide setting does NOT work. Doing it the way it has been done will cause no harm to the truck and improves handling.
01-20-2019, 12:50 PM
#15
Ford bases it on SAE J2807, which is flawed. Following the SAE recommendations unloads the front axle, which can lead to overloading the outward rear wheel on a sharp curve and cause poor handling. Industry standards have the front wheel well being returned to stock or as close to it as possible to return full front axle weight.
Here is a good article about it. https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...sion-bars-441/
I for one will go with what has been tried, tested, and approved for well over 40 years than on a recent new standard that is flawed. So for me, setting up the hitch based on the hitch manufacturers setup guide is the way I will do it. It works, I have tested and proven it works, and have proven the Ford guide setting does NOT work. Doing it the way it has been done will cause no harm to the truck and improves handling.
Here is a good article about it. https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...sion-bars-441/
I for one will go with what has been tried, tested, and approved for well over 40 years than on a recent new standard that is flawed. So for me, setting up the hitch based on the hitch manufacturers setup guide is the way I will do it. It works, I have tested and proven it works, and have proven the Ford guide setting does NOT work. Doing it the way it has been done will cause no harm to the truck and improves handling.
01-20-2019, 01:12 PM
#16
Yes they do
Note they say minimum. So the Ford manual is the Minimum setting. Prior to J2807 is was to return half the height to the front, and now it's one quarter the height. Sorry, but that is just not enough weight returned to the steer axle. Knowing how much a light front axle can plow when hauling a heavy load, I want as much weight on the front as possible as long as it is at or near unloaded weight and not over.
It is in section 4.4.3
The truck-and-trailer “Combination Handling Requirements” of J2807 specify minimum performance for understeer and trailer sway response. The tests are designed to determine the limits of the weight carrying, weight distributing, and stability of a fifth-wheel/gooseneck trailer, with the combo at its maximum GCWR. Understeer (the opposite of fishtailing) is measured at three different levels of Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR), which is a calculation of how much the load on the front axle changes.
It is in section 4.4.3
4.4.3 Tow-vehicle Understeer Specific Ballast Conditions Ideally, the tow-vehicle/trailer combination should be ballasted such that the tow-vehicle simultaneously attains GCWR, GVWR and Rear GAWR. If testing with a weight distributing hitch, ballast distribution shall occur prior to applying the weight distributing hitch torque. The weight distributing hitch shall be adjusted to provide FALR levels within ±10% of target FALR (e.g. from 40% to 60% for a 50% FALR target) as specified in 4.4.1. Refer to Appendices B and C for procedure.There may be tow-vehicles that cannot attain GCWR, GVWR and Rear GAWR simultaneously with tongue weight at 10% (conventional trailer) or kingpin weight at 20% (fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer) of loaded test trailer weight; in this case, priority in meeting these values should be:1) GCWR, 2) RGAWR and 3) GVWR. Again, refer to Appendices B and C for details
Last edited by acdii; 01-20-2019 at 01:19 PM.
01-20-2019, 01:24 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
01-20-2019, 01:31 PM
#18
You must be looking at a old revision. From the 2016 final release.
”If a weight distributing hitch is recommended by the tow vehicle manufacturer for the GCWR/TWR under test, it should be adjusted per tow-vehicle manufacturer’s instructions or to 100% FALR if no particular value is specified. Refer to Appendices B and C for procedure.”
Now I will agree that with most half ton trucks towing a larger conventional RV TT this is difficult to execute. You need to use a certain type hitch to hold it all together while you transfer too much weight forward. The truck is being used beyond its limits at this point.
”If a weight distributing hitch is recommended by the tow vehicle manufacturer for the GCWR/TWR under test, it should be adjusted per tow-vehicle manufacturer’s instructions or to 100% FALR if no particular value is specified. Refer to Appendices B and C for procedure.”
Now I will agree that with most half ton trucks towing a larger conventional RV TT this is difficult to execute. You need to use a certain type hitch to hold it all together while you transfer too much weight forward. The truck is being used beyond its limits at this point.
01-21-2019, 12:42 PM
#19
You must be looking at a old revision. From the 2016 final release.
”If a weight distributing hitch is recommended by the tow vehicle manufacturer for the GCWR/TWR under test, it should be adjusted per tow-vehicle manufacturer’s instructions or to 100% FALR if no particular value is specified. Refer to Appendices B and C for procedure.”
Now I will agree that with most half ton trucks towing a larger conventional RV TT this is difficult to execute. You need to use a certain type hitch to hold it all together while you transfer too much weight forward. The truck is being used beyond its limits at this point.
”If a weight distributing hitch is recommended by the tow vehicle manufacturer for the GCWR/TWR under test, it should be adjusted per tow-vehicle manufacturer’s instructions or to 100% FALR if no particular value is specified. Refer to Appendices B and C for procedure.”
Now I will agree that with most half ton trucks towing a larger conventional RV TT this is difficult to execute. You need to use a certain type hitch to hold it all together while you transfer too much weight forward. The truck is being used beyond its limits at this point.
Of course this is all under the YMMV rule.
01-21-2019, 12:49 PM
#20
Take into account the scale variance. Note that the Gross varies with each scaling. The scales are made for 80,000 pound trucks with 10K + per axle set, and a 20 pound variance per set at that weight, so anything less than 10K per plate will have a higher variance. Between all three plates the total is less than 13K pounds. IOW I can weigh the same setup several times and come up with a slight weight difference each time.
The weight transferred was 480 pounds, the weight moved forward was 240 pounds, as well as 240 pounds moved to the trailer. The scale reading for the Blue Ox was 120 pounds lighter over all than the prior one with the Husky, so you may have missed that.
12420 - 12300 = 120
The weight transferred was 480 pounds, the weight moved forward was 240 pounds, as well as 240 pounds moved to the trailer. The scale reading for the Blue Ox was 120 pounds lighter over all than the prior one with the Husky, so you may have missed that.
12420 - 12300 = 120