Ricktwuhk

Advocating that others do the same is wrong, and putting up posts with titles challenging others is objectionable to many.

johndeerefarmer

The airbags are in place of the extra helper spring on the HDPP so in effect you have the same spring capacity but are using bags instead of steel.

11screw50

And it still doesn't change the frame.

johndeerefarmer

I stated (with facts) why the max tow trucks are as capable as the HDPP. Even if that wasn't enough, I also know that from an engineering standpoint everything is underrated for safety and that Ford tests for (and expects) some to exceed those guidelines.
If you want to follow the paper guidelines to the letter and push those that is your business. I in return have the right to express my opinions as well.
I take it you also never drive over the speed limit?

Steve Osborne

we/I don't care....its the car/truck with flashing lights...and the educated officer that will know to look at stickers and maybe bring the scales/mto( for Canada) out...but most flashing light idiots only look for obvious stuff....speeding/reckless driving..

NC F150

Johndeerfarmer

Thanks for starting this thread.

I have found the same data in my research. Particularly in relation to reducing the aluminum panel truck weight and conversely reducing the gvwr. Makes no sense to me.

Doesn't mean I'm going to start grossly overloading my truck. Just means that when I'm at the limit, I'll have fewer worries.

old_programmer

The problem is you nor I know what that safety margin might be as we don't have access to the specifications. Is it 1%, 5%, 10% or x%. There can be a big difference in safety margin depending upon its percentage for a given part of assembly. You also have longevity. Part of the engineer's decision is going to take into account part life expectations. The higher the load the shorter the life. Again we don't have access to the specifications so have no idea what the margin is.

You have two other issues when you start going over the published specifications. The first is in the case of an accident. If you are overloaded even if you are not at fault could still be found culpable for being overloaded. In court the safety margins aren't going to matter. Only the published Ford specs will count and that is all Ford will back up. In any event it could cost you a lot of money. The other issue is warranty service. As we don't know the margins a part could fail. Ford has the right to evaluate that part before warranting the repair. For something like a spring they could decide to do a metallurgical inspection to see why it failed. If they determine it was stress related do to being overweight they could deny the repair. Again you are putting yourself in a position that could result in a costly repair. Ford isn't going to care that they have built in safety margins. They will strictly by their publishes specifications.

Of course the odds are in your favor that none of this will ever affect you. However spread those odds across a large number of people and someone following the advice is bound to be negatively affected by the advice. Are you willing to live with that? I'm not so will stick to Ford's specifications and recommend such.

ambush

John Deere farmer: If you overload your truck and are fine with that, then so be it. However, I take serious issue with you mocking others who are simply trying to help people out by keeping newbies within limits. I'm guessing by your name that your a farmer. All the farmers I know grew up on a farm and have done that their entire lives. You probably operated equipment from a very young age, and are very comfortable with most forms of it. Farmers tend to be some of the most ingenious people around. They just know how to get things done with what they have. All this experience has made you very comfortable doing things that the average guy from the suburbs should never attempt. You may think nothing of loading 14 round bales on your 30ft deck over trailer and taking them the 6 miles over gravel country roads at no more than 30 mph from your nephews quarter section. However, telling someone who has never pulled anything other than a 5x8 utility trailer that he will be just fine towing a camper that will put him over one or more ratings halfway across the continent, is at best, doing them a tremendous disservice. Try not to assume everyone has the experience you do.

johndeerefarmer

People can do whatever they are comfortable with. I have done my research and know what is the same and what is different between the two packages. The brakes (which are identical) suspension (which has been addressed) and the tires/wheels (which I also addressed) are the only items that would have any effect on safety or cause concern. If someone chooses to load 4k lbs in the bed and cracks the frame then its not a safety concern but an expense on their part. It's like a custom tune, if you play you pay. Same here.

I have never saw anyone stopped by the police or having had an accident and the insurance company said, "hey you are over your payload by 300 lbs" so you have no insurance. These are not commercial vehicles and are not weighed.

As far as the frames go, the truck frames are made of may different thicknesses. Only the section where the load is, is heavier. I had a '92 F150 with the 351 V8 that had a c channel frame and I towed 10k lbs with it and had no problems. Every generation since then has been stronger so I have no problem with loading 2000-2500 lbs in my bed

Ricktwuhk

So when an idiot loads 4,000 pounds in his truck, and his axle breaks and he loses control on the highway and kills a family and you don't see it - is that the same as when a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, it doesn't make a noise?

I didn't realize that all traffic stops in the US, and all accident investigations are cleared through you, so that you would be aware of all over capacity stops or accidents caused by idiots going over capacities, some significantly, as you seem to espouse. I guarantee you that personal vehicles driven significantly over capacity are cited every day, and that people are found negligent by courts every day, other parties sue every day, and win.

700 pounds over a 1,700 pound payload is 41% over capacity. Since you said "over 1,700" perhaps it's closer to 1,800, so you're only 39% over capacity. Again, your business (until you harm others) on what you do, but espousing that others should exceed capacities like this, and taunting forum members for espousing following capacities is not acceptable.

My elderly father in-law is very cheap. He did his own maintenance for decades, finally realizing he was too old (when he was in his late 80s) and having others do the work. His dealer would tell him during a routine oil change of things they saw, and he would ignore them. Some years ago, part of the front suspension broke and he drove over the curb and up a lawn. Nobody hurt, nothing damaged, and the lawn was his sister's. Had he been going 70 on the highway, it would have been disastrous. I called the dealer all ticked off and asked why they didn't see it coming. They pulled up their records and said "we told him this 4 months ago, XXXX miles ago. He said he would take care of it.". Well, he didn't take care of it. I asked him "what would have happened if you were on the highway?" His response, "when it's your time, it's your time." I said "what about when your negligence kills others?" He had no answer to that. From that point forward, every service at his dealer tripped me to make a call (by that time I was paying their bills and seeing the credit card charge), and the dealer would review everything they found that he refused to fix. Had he had an unsafe situation, and refused to repair it, I would have reported him to the DMV and tried to remove his keys from his possession.

You are not alone in the world, and driving vehicles dangerously over capacity will catch up to you some day. Hopefully you won't harm others in the process. But advocating that others do as you do is simply not going to fly on this forum.