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Getting the truck ready for towing

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Old 04-30-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by smokeywren
Incorrect info. If you are running stock-size ST tires, then you probably need to run them at max PSI when wet and loaded on the road. Because OEMs usually install tires that have barely enough weight capacity to support the GAWR of the trailer axles. But if you replace the OEM trailer tires with ST tires that have more weight capacity, then you should go by the load/inflation table for that size tire.

ST tires have stiffer sidewalls, but otherwise they are similar construction to P-Series and LT tires. So you should inflate them per the TRA load/inflation table for that size tire, with maybe up to 10% more PSI than the table calls for.

The Tire and Rim Assn. (TRA) load/inflation tables for ST tires are hard to find if you're not a member of TRA. But Maxxis publishes an excerpt from the TRA table, so it is available to the public.
http://www.maxxis.com/trailer/traile...nflation-chart

For example, my 5er came with ST205/75R15C tires that had 1,830 pounds weight capacity @50 PSI. That's 7,320 max GAW. And my 5er had almost 7,320 GAW when wet and loaded for long trips. Result- Blowouts. So I replaced tires (and wheels) with ST225/75R15D that have 2540 weight capacity, or up to 10,160 pounds GAW @65 PSI. But my 5er had GAWR barely less than 1,830 pounds per tire. The load/inflation table said they required only 40 PSI to handle that weight, and at 50 PSI they would handle 2150 pounds per tire or 8600 pounds GAW. 8600 minus 7300 GAW = 1300 pounds safety margin, or about 18%. That's a good enough safety margin for me, so I run those trailer tires at about 50 PSI. Those tires now are several years old with probably 40,000 miles on them, and no more trailer tire problems.

Another example: My cargo trailer also came with ST205/75R15C tires. So I replaced tires (and wheels) with ST225/75R15E with 2,830 pounds weight capacity per tire @80 PSI, or over 11,000 pounds tire capacity for my trailer that has only 7,000 pounds GVWR. I run those tires at about 50 PSI too, which is probably too much PSI. But no tire problems on that trailer either. I recently returned from a 4,000+ miles trip to Oregon and back dragging that trailer, and not a hint of any trailer tire problems on that trip.

thanks for correcting me... i should have considered better load tires. on a side note, some rims can't handle more pressure or load either. i have a jayco swift 267bhs and both the rims and the tires are at their max capacity if i'm maxing out the gross of the trailer.
Old 04-30-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Norotso
That what these items are for:

Not sure what you are getting at here???

Those are for measuring tread depth. If you are implying that you can check the depth across the tread for uneven wear, then you are too late to do anything about.

Once you realise you have uneven wear, the damage is done. So the only good those would be is to tell you that you made a mistake some time ago.

You need to use accurate and correct inflation from the start and not just max out and hope for the best.

Last edited by Dirttracker18; 04-30-2014 at 12:37 PM.
Old 05-01-2014, 06:16 AM
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45psi in E tires isn't really taking full advantage of the tires taking out the wobble and they probly look a little low on pressure too. At that pressure the traction is probly great but I'd be surprised that they don't wear funny. Probly a litttle hard on the mileage also. I used to run around in my 3/4 ton at about 60psi unloaded, but they always went to 80psi when loaded. Heck I run my factory 1/2 ton tires at 35psi running around, and close to 40psi towing. I hate spungy tires. A good tire shop should put the correct stems in if you put E rated tires on...course when I bought my last truck (3/4 ton) it came with low pressure stems. I didn't relize it untill I came out one morning in the summer heat and a tire was flat. Some dealers are a little cheap is what I found out.
Old 05-01-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by uzikaduzi
on a side note, some rims can't handle more pressure or load either. i have a jayco swift 267bhs and both the rims and the tires are at their max capacity if i'm maxing out the gross of the trailer.
On all the trailers that I have upgraded from ST205/75R15C to ST225/75R15 D or E, the stock wheels were too narrow, so they had to be replaced with the tires. ST225/75R15 requires rims that are at least 6" wide. Here are inexpensive 15" wheels that are 6" wide with 2600 pounds weight capacity, and that is plenty for a ST225/75R15D tire.
http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-407-128698.aspx
If you want the same size tire in load range E, then either don't load the trailer to more than 2600 pounds per tire, or find some rims rated for over 2830 pounds. Yeah, those are hard to find, and will probably cost you more than $32 each.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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I do not know the trailer tires so I will leave that to others. I can for a fact tell you that the max cold psi on the tire is for maxium performance of the tire, ie handling, wieght load, tread life. I have had tires on cars run 10 to 20% past the mileage they were rated to, but only by religously checking PSI, and rotating. I have had minivans were the tires were junk at 40K on a tire with an 80K mileage. The inner and outer edges were run down due to running the tire at door spec verse tire spec (and no the alignment was spot on). The spec on the door is for ride quality. I have also had trucks with the 80psi Lts, the truck rode like hell above 70psi except in the winter with the plow on and the salter on the back. If you have a tire that states 44psi cold, anything less is underinflated and will decrease tire performance, which will include weight, handling and tread life. And lower PSI does not increase traction on a radial tire, only on bias plys. Lower PSI on a radial will actually decrease traction due to the concave that happens to an under inflated tire (i.e. the reason you see 30 and 40K minivans and SUVs with inner and out edge of the tire worn out). The performance exception is offroading. Lower psi allows the tire to mold around objects and decreases the likely hood of side wall damage from rocks.
I know several will argue that I am wrong, however I have based this on nearly 30 years of driving experiance, averaging 15 to 20k a year in my own passenger cars and trucks. I have debated this with more Tire service guys then you can imagen and most have been able to see the logic behind it and agreed with my point of view.

Last edited by tomb1269; 05-02-2014 at 01:48 PM.
Old 05-02-2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tomb1269
I do not know the trailer tires so I will leave that to others. I can for a fact tell you that the max cold psi on the tire is for maxium performance of the tire, ie handling, wieght load, tread life. I have had tires on cars run 10 to 20% past the mileage they were rated to, but only by religously checking PSI, and rotating. I have had minivans were the tires were junk at 40K on a tire with an 80K mileage. The inner and outer edges were run down due to running the tire at door spec verse tire spec (and no the alignment was spot on). The spec on the door is for ride quality. I have also had trucks with the 80psi Lts, the truck rode like hell above 70psi except in the winter with the plow on and the salter on the back. If you have a tire that states 44psi cold, anything less is underinflated and will decrease tire performance, which will include weight, handling and tread life. And lower PSI does not increase traction on a radial tire, only on bias plys. Lower PSI on a radial will actually decrease traction due to the concave that happens to an under inflated tire (i.e. the reason you see 30 and 40K minivans and SUVs with inner and out edge of the tire worn out). The performance exception is offroading. Lower psi allows the tire to mold around objects and decreases the likely hood of side wall damage from rocks.
I know several will argue that I am wrong, however I have based this on nearly 30 years of driving experiance, averaging 15 to 20k a year in my own passenger cars and trucks. I have debated this with more Tire service guys then you can imagen and most have been able to see the logic behind it and agreed with my point of view.

You are wrong and should not be srpeading this misinformation.

I base this on knowledge, my own and that of tire manufacturers and their engineers. None of what you said is accurate or correct.

FYI
The tire clearly states "MAX PSI at a given weeght" not recommended PSI for whenever I feel like it. Each tire manufacturer puts out charts specifically to figure out the optimal tire PSI for a given weight. They dont do this for ****s and giggles. They do it because they know what their tires require for a given load. Trailer tires can be found in the same charts. Really not much difference.

As for PSI not affecting traction, this just goes to show how truely ingnorant of facts you are. The fact that underinflated tires wear the outer edges show that you are not using the inner part as much, those less traction. Pretty simply concept there.
this is why 1 PSI of air pressure difference is so important in a race car, because of the change in traction.

Do you over fill your oil too because your experience tells you it might burn or leak some anyway? How about we under fill the oil because in your experience is seems like it gets better MPG like that?

Last edited by Dirttracker18; 05-02-2014 at 02:40 PM.
Old 05-02-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirttracker18
You are wrong and should not be srpeading this misinformation.

I base this on knowledge, my own and that of tire manufacturers and their engineers. None of what you said is accurate or correct.

FYI
The tire clearly states "MAX PSI at a given weeght" not recommended PSI for whenever I feel like it. Each tire manufacturer puts out charts specifically to figure out the optimal tire PSI for a given weight. They dont do this for ****s and giggles. They do it because they know what their tires require for a given load. Trailer tires can be found in the same charts. Really not much difference.

As for PSI not affecting traction, this just goes to show how truely ingnorant of facts you are. The fact that underinflated tires wear the outer edges show that you are not using the inner part as much, those less traction. Pretty simply concept there.
this is why 1 PSI of air pressure difference is so important in a race car, because of the change in traction.

Do you over fill your oil too because your experience tells you it might burn or leak some anyway? How about we under fill the oil because in your experience is seems like it gets better MPG like that?
I knew someone would tell me what I have seen with my own eyes would not be what I saw with my own eyes......... I had hoped it be with a little less belittling.
"The tire clearly states "MAX PSI at a given weeght" not recommended PSI for whenever I feel like it."
- I have never seen "MAXPSI for AGIVEN WEIGHT" listed on any tire I have ever purchased. I have seen Max PSI COLD..........

"As for PSI not affecting traction, this just goes to show how truely ingnorant of facts you are. The fact that underinflated tires wear the outer edges show that you are not using the inner part as much, those less traction."
- Exactly what I said, under inflation cause center of the tire to make less contact therefore wearing the outer edges faster. And with that you have clearly agreed to my statement of max psi cold is for optimum performance, ie mileage in this case.

"this is why 1 PSI of air pressure difference is so important in a race car, because of the change in traction."
- The effect you are trying to state with a race car has a lot to do with tire temp & side wall or tire bite. The increase in pressure will change the way the tire setups up in the corner, as well as to how it responds to defects in the track. And once a race tire gets to tempature and becomes sticky, it will change how much bite it has in the corner. We do not get passenger car tires heated up like that, the compounds are different, etc, etc. When you get it to true performance tires for race or near race conditions (high performance sports car etc.) then Tire pressures will greatly effect performance. However for most of us it has little performance effect, just ride quality and longevity. I can tell you that I have had plan old run of the mill GM sedans that I could feel the difference of 2 -3 psi from one tire to the next, but it is not common.

Last edited by tomb1269; 05-02-2014 at 04:56 PM.
Old 05-02-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tomb1269
I knew someone would tell me what I have seen with my own eyes would not be what I saw with my own eyes......... I had hoped it be with a little less belittling.
"The tire clearly states "MAX PSI at a given weeght" not recommended PSI for whenever I feel like it."
- I have never seen "MAXPSI for AGIVEN WEIGHT" listed on any tire I have ever purchased. I have seen Max PSI COLD..........

"As for PSI not affecting traction, this just goes to show how truely ingnorant of facts you are. The fact that underinflated tires wear the outer edges show that you are not using the inner part as much, those less traction."
- Exactly what I said, under inflation cause center of the tire to make less contact therefore wearing the outer edges faster. And with that you have clearly agreed to my statement of max psi cold is for optimum performance, ie mileage in this case.

"this is why 1 PSI of air pressure difference is so important in a race car, because of the change in traction."
- The effect you are trying to state with a race car has a lot to do with tire temp & side wall or tire bite. The increase in pressure will change the way the tire setups up in the corner, as well as to how it responds to defects in the track. And once a race tire gets to tempature and becomes sticky, it will change how much bite it has in the corner. We do not get passenger car tires heated up like that, the compounds are different, etc, etc. When you get it to true performance tires for race or near race conditions (high performance sports car etc.) then Tire pressures will greatly effect performance. However for most of us it has little performance effect, just ride quality and longevity. I can tell you that I have had plan old run of the mill GM sedans that I could feel the difference of 2 -3 psi from one tire to the next, but it is not common.
you got to be kidding me you are wearing the center of your tread out and looking at the edges of the tread and saying it's fine. you maybe getting slightly better mileage because your decreasing rolling resistance because the edges of your tread are barely touching the road. you do not get better performance or ride quality with max pressure. I'd be happy to drive you around the block with my load e's at 80psi (their max cold) and 35psi if you'd like... there is a noticeable difference even without that extreme of a difference and not in the direction you think.
Old 05-02-2014, 08:04 PM
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Sorry you were offended but that does not make you correct. Many people go through life doing the same thing all the time incorrectly. Just because they did it that way for 20 years does not make it correct.


I almost did not respond because people like you do not want to listen to fact and instead insert their opinion and call it fact.


For the benefit of those that read this I will refute your post piece by piece. Hopefully that way you can see the error of your ways and others can understand why you are wrong.


Originally Posted by tomb1269
I knew someone would tell me what I have seen with my own eyes would not be what I saw with my own eyes......... I had hoped it be with a little less belittling.
"The tire clearly states "MAX PSI at a given weeght" not recommended PSI for whenever I feel like it."
- I have never seen "MAXPSI for AGIVEN WEIGHT" listed on any tire I have ever purchased. I have seen Max PSI COLD..........


Either you cannot read, do not read the entire part or are using my words verbatim as a child would to try to discredit me. Here is some evidence for you taken off the tire of my truck.





You can clearly see that this tire says 3640 lbs at 550 kpa or 80 psi. What that is saying is that the tire should be at 80 psi (its max psi) when carrying 3640 lbs (it max carrying capacity). It does not say fill this tire to 80 psi when cold. What you need to do is find out how much weight each tire is carrying and use that percentage of your carrying capacity to determine the optimum psi.




"As for PSI not affecting traction, this just goes to show how truely ingnorant of facts you are. The fact that underinflated tires wear the outer edges show that you are not using the inner part as much, those less traction."
- Exactly what I said, under inflation cause center of the tire to make less contact therefore wearing the outer edges faster. And with that you have clearly agreed to my statement of max psi cold is for optimum performance, ie mileage in this case.



The only thing I dislike more than an ignorant post posing as fact is someone that attempts to rebut facts by putting words in my mouth.


No where do I agree with that. Please quote me where I agree with that statement or retract it. My statement of under inflation does not equate to an agreement of your falsehood about over inflation. Max cold PSI will not give you max performance, although I would agree it MAY give you your best mpg. The performance will be bad in most cases. What you are doing is only using a small portion of the available traction by riding on the center of your tread only, both directions, length and width. You will have less control of your vehicle if your tire are over inflated, period.



"this is why 1 PSI of air pressure difference is so important in a race car, because of the change in traction."
- The effect you are trying to state with a race car has a lot to do with tire temp & side wall or tire bite. The increase in pressure will change the way the tire setups up in the corner, as well as to how it responds to defects in the track. And once a race tire gets to tempature and becomes sticky, it will change how much bite it has in the corner. We do not get passenger car tires heated up like that, the compounds are different, etc, etc. When you get it to true performance tires for race or near race conditions (high performance sports car etc.) then Tire pressures will greatly effect performance. However for most of us it has little performance effect, just ride quality and longevity. I can tell you that I have had plan old run of the mill GM sedans that I could feel the difference of 2 -3 psi from one tire to the next, but it is not common.


I don't think you want to debate the finer points of tires when on a race car with me. I have 20 years of experience building, maintaining and driving race cars on a variety of track surfaces (paved, dirt and ice). In addition I have tire technology training from Goodyear and Hoosier. I still get called out to diagnose ill handling cars. I speak from knowledge AND experience.


PSI on your truck will greatly affect performance even in smaller amounts. The difference between a race car and a DD is that most people driving their dd vehicles cannot feel the difference and instead drive with less then optimal performance of their tires at best and on dangerous tire at worst.


I appreciate that people want to help others on a forum, that's what they are here for. However when you use your "experience" to attempt to refute facts (from those that know, the manufacturers and their engineers) then it must be corrected so that others do not follow the incorrect advice.


Please try for yourself to perform some back to back experiments (timed slalom runs, breaking test, etc) with correctly inflated tires versus tire at their max psi and you will see the difference fact makes.


FWIW
I do not have to even get close to my max PSI when towing my 30' TT to have optimal performance.
With my race background I am very particular about how my vehicles feel on the road and am very sensitive to poor road manners. Maxing out the PSI on my truck makes it feel like I am up on skates and it's dancing around, as would be expected.

Last edited by Dirttracker18; 05-02-2014 at 08:10 PM.
Old 05-03-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirttracker18
^^^^

Poor advice there. You need to better understand tire pressure and it's purpose.

Simple going to max pressure is incorrect.

Ultimately you should calculate your correct air pressure based on the tire manufacturers ratings and the weight each tire is carrying.

However a chalk test can get you in the ball park and a little up or down from there.

If you require max pressures, you require better tires for the load you are carrying.
Talking about tow vehicles...
'E' rated tires tow much better than the squishy 'P" rated tires.
On a straight of way you don't notice it. Go into curves, especially on a worn, bumpy road, and the stronger sidewalls of an E rated tire, pay dividends. Towing light weights may not need the heavier E rated tires, but larger campers benefit from the stability of stronger sidewalls. Think, 10 ply VS 2 ply.
I tow a lot so the E rated tires are for me.

Last edited by Ole Man Dan; 05-03-2014 at 12:24 AM. Reason: format & clarification about vehicle
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