sjoerger

Hello to all,

Been lurking here for quite a while and learning, but apparently not enough. Like many who probably find there way here, I have a dilemma with my current truck and new camper. Sadly I learned too late that I bought an F150 with a some what limited payload capacity but at the time it was fine because our old camper weighed so little. With a recent camper upgrade we're now bumping up against the top of the payload and I am trying to determine what to do next. Hopefully the wisdom of the forum can guide me.

Truck specs: 2016 F150 Lariat screw ecoboost 4X2 145" with 3.55 gears. Payload capacity is 1612. GVWR is 6800lbs. Front axle is 3300 and rear is 3800. Tires are Michellin LTX M/S2 20". Truck does have the Max Tow package.

Camper specs: 2018 Shamrock 233s, dry weight 4908, gvwr is 6302. I have not taken it to a scale yet.

I did measure the tongue weight when it was delivered at 650lbs (turns out I didn't know there was some water in the tanks at the rear which likely lightened the tongue weight some). We've camped in it once so far and upon returning home I measured the tongue again at 975lbs which included the whole wdh sitting on the tongue. Shifting some gear inside the camper to the rear helped get the tongue weight down a bit, but still about 900lbs.

To help me puzzle out all the numbers I put together a spreadsheet and the results tell me that at 13% tongue weight I have about 113lbs of free cargo capacity. At 15% tongue weight I'm overloaded (these numbers include passengers and dogs in the cab, which is about 575lbs). Certainly I'd rather not be overloaded at all, and I'm not happy about being so close to the max payload capacity at 13%.

One option that I am considering is upgrading to a F250 or similar. I'm not enthused about going diesel with the added costs/maintenance. This upgrade would be my daily driver. I also want "enough" truck in an upgrade that I can move up in camper size in a few years, possibly going to a smaller 5th wheel.

Some questions I have:
1. Are the available suspension "fixes" worthwhile in my case? By fixes I mean airbags, timbrens, extra springs, different tires?
2. Is an F250 (late model/new) going to get me enough payload capacity to last several (7-10) years?
3. Is there an option I'm not seeing?

Thanks for reading,
Steve

Ricktwuhk

You weighed the tongue at 900 pounds with the WDH.

1,612 - 900 = 712. You, your family, anything you load in the truck, any mods you made to the truck (bedmat, bed liner, ...) cannot exceed 712 pounds.

I don't understand your 13% and 15% free calculations. You know your payload, you know your tongue weight. Done. Don't exceed 712 pounds in the truck. Ideally, weigh the truck with your family, a full tank of gas, and everything in the camper, with the WDH attached and cranked. Then undo the bars. Then just the truck.

Edit - at 900 pound tongue weight, if you're at 13%, then the trailer loaded weighs 6,923 pounds. Since its max is 6,302, you are very overloaded on the trailer.

sjoerger

Sorry, my 13% and 15% calculations included passengers and dogs in the cab.

Ricktwuhk

13 and 15% calculations are used to determine, from a trailer weight, how much the tongue MIGHT weigh. Then you use that in the determination of your payload can handle it.

You know your tongue weight. You know your payload. Assuming your truck is stock, with no bedmat, etc., you can have 712 pounds with you, your family, and your dogs. That's it. If you are over that, you need a lighter tongue weight.

Separately, at 13% tongue weight, you have overloaded your trailer. By 600 pounds. That's a big issue.

If you load the trailer to the max, 6,302, and have 15% tongue weight, your tongue would weigh 945 pounds. Yours weighs 900 pounds. So, you either have 14.3% tongue weight, OR you have an overloaded trailer.

I strongly suggest you get on a scale ASAP to determine what weighs what.

sjoerger

I must not be remembering my loaded tongue weight correctly and will measure it again this weekend. However, it still seems my payload is not going to be acceptable in the log run.

Barristersteve

You are considering the right numbers, being payload and proper tongue weight for your trailer.


You don't mention how much weight you are carrying in your truck (passengers, dogs etc.) when you are towing. You also do not mention whether you have a tow package or max tow package which may help other members provide some advice.

My personal experience involves a pre-aluminum 2010 F150 Screw with Maxtow XLT and the trailer I am towing is 8200 lbs loaded for camping with a 1050 lb tongue weight (12.7%). My F150 has 1700 lbs of payload so I am just under on my weights with wife and son.

I added air-bags and LT tires, LT tires are factory on HDPP F150's, when it was time for new tires to increase stability. I have also been towing since day one with a Propride 3p hitch which like the Hensley Arrow are a little more expensive than other hitches but IMHO essential for a great towing experience when towing heavy with a F150. This is the 4th season I have this setup and I have never had a single concern about stability and I just returned from a round trip to Florida from Ontario, Canada. Twice the torque of new diesel would be great for towing, but I can't justify the additional expense for a daily driver with short commutes.

Matching a 5th wheel to a F150 is challenging because an 8000lb travel trailer with a recommended 12.5% (middle of recommended 10 to 15%) tongue weight will give you about 960 lbs whereas an 8000 lb 5th wheel at 22.5% (middle of 20 to 25% recommended) is 1800lbs pin weight. The XLT 4X4 Screw's with HDPP that I have looked at around 2400lbs of payload which makes a 5th theoretically possible but I would still want to look into Rear Axle Weights with a 1800-2000lb 5th wheel pin weight before I started hauling a 5th long distances.

sjoerger

Good points, my truck does have the Max Tow package, and I added the weights of passengers/dogs to my original post. This comes to about 575lbs.

I have no interest in ever trying to tow a 5th wheel with my F150, I know the payload just isn't there. But I am interested in towing a 5th wheel with an F250, though the payload numbers I am seeing for F250's actually don't look all that great either.

I will also mention that my wdh is the Husky Centerline TS rated for 800-1200lbs.

redranger04g

You're doing all the correct measurements, you just don't (seem) to understand it completely.

Payload - tongue weight - added weight in truck = greater than zero
1,612 - 900 - 575 = 137 lbs

It's as simple as that, you are good to go!

Now, to explain what you seem to have confused is the 13/15% you were talking about. It is estimated the tongue weight of a trailer will be somewhere between 10% and 15% of the weight of the trailer. Therefore, before buying a trailer, people will estimate the tongue weight of the trailer they are buying to make sure they do not exceed their payload capacities. Weighing is better than estimating, and you did that. So forget about the 13/15%.

sjoerger

No, I understand the math pretty well I think. That remaining 137lbs is what concerns me. That is not very much leeway for adding camping "stuff" in the bed of the truck.

In order to keep the tongue weight in check I have to position my cargo in the camper towards the rear, which is fine, except for the lack of space

All of this is certainly doable, but it seems like I would be towing at 95% capacity all the time which cannot be good for the mechanical bits of the truck. Nor for my sanity/comfort level.

redranger04g

First off, you are not towing at 95% capacity of the truck, you are towing at 95% of the payload of the truck. There is a difference, as there are several other factors you are not exceeding, but the payload is usually the first to be exceeded.

As an engineer, I can assure you not to be worried about being close to the payload, so long as you don't exceed it. These limits exist for a reason, and there is a ton of conservatism built into these ratings.

Lots of trucks are on the road severely exceeding these ratings without any problems.

Is it legal? -No Is it safe? -Probably not.

You're one of the good guys doing your homework, but don't worry about being close to the limit as long as you don't exceed it.