BACK2GAS

I became a true cost analysis guy a few years back. I've owned a diesel 3/4 in the past. Drive a 5.0 now. I tow a 7400lb travel trailer about 3k miles a year which is about 20% of my miles driven.

All the numbers plugged into the calculator below are current. I used the 2017 Ecoboost as "Car 1" and used the Ram Ecodiesel as the "Car 2" as it currently best represents what that mileage may look like for an F150 diesel. I used manufacturers stated "Average MPG" for each vehicle. Those numbers can vary slightly depending on configuration. Lastly I used Costco gas prices as of today for the cost of regular gas and diesel. Cost of fuel will vary by region.

The calculator shows a savings of $585 ($117 per year) over 5 years and 75k miles for "Car 2" the diesel truck.



Image number 2 represents my towing miles per year, using my personally observed towing 10 MPG vs. another guys personally observed towing 18 MPG using his Ecodiesel.

Here you can see that the diesel will save me $1487 over 5 years and 15k actual "towing" miles.

Combine the 2 for a total of 18k miles driven for the year, 3k towing, 15k unloaded and the savings represented to me = $2072 for 5 years and 90k miles.

So what's the cost of this new diesel? Probably greater than $2072? The ecodiesel is about $3k more. Would I (me) keep my truck long enough to realize savings? Maybe. Hard to say. I get the itch about every 7-8 years.

Factor in maintenance etc. I'm not likely a good candidate. If I start towing more or gas prices go up and diesel prices come down, maybe. Who knows?

Play with the calculator yourself . It's at fuel economy.gov.

Aj06bolt12r

I have already dedicated way too much time and typing to this thread only to be accused of "fear mongering" and outright lying because of my "personal agenda" against diesel engines.
WTF are you even talking about? How exactly do you think I benefit from this?

I have no expectations of having everyone who reads these threads agree with me. Many of you come here with your mind already made up and have no interest in digesting a different perspective. Noting I can ever do about that.

Compared to the ecoboost the diesel will be "under powered"
The diesel will be out performed in every metric other than fuel economy by the ecoboost.
Fuel economy - diesel... any savings here will be offset by purchase price and maintenance and repair costs for 99% of typical 1/2 ton truck buyers
Acceleration - ecoboost... by a mile
Acceleration with a loaded trailer - ecoboost by a mile again - I cant wait to see the the Ike Gauntlet comparison between the diesel and the ecoboost, that is going to be hilarious.
All this "diesel is the best engine for towing no matter what" B.S. is going to be exposed to the light of day in that test for sure.
I think there is a damn good chance that the 5.0 beats the diesel to the top of the IKE. It may have a harder time since its naturally aspirated and has to deal with the elevation un-assisted. But if I had to bet, Id bet on the 5.0

As far as the diesel lasting longer. Any honest person who actually earns a living working on these things will tell you without question.
There is no comparison in the cost involved in keeping an emissions compliant diesel engine on the road vs keeping a gas engine on the road. The higher the miles get the wider this gap gets. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, its just the way it is. I already explained why that is in my earlier posts. I don't feel the need to re type it. Go back and read it again if it hasn't sunk in.

acdii

Then why do you keep coming back to bash the diesels? We get it, you don't think they are reliable.


Back2gas, what if the driver puts on 36K a year and 3500 miles towing @ 8 MPG, but averages 19MPG normally? Would the diesel then be practical?

kmlacroix

It all depends on what you want. I live at high altitude and camp higher usually. I will likely always own a supercharged engine. The ecoBoost works for me. The ecoDiesel was fantastic in my JGC. If you want a diesel, get it. With a diesel you will more likely run out of truck before you run out of engine. Your mileage may vary.

Aj06bolt12r

You again? I though you said you didn't care!?!

I don't feel like I need to answer your question since you couldn't or wouldn't answer the last questions I had for you. Doesn't quite seem fair.

Dirttracker18

Everyone that I know that does actually work on diesels (and that is a good number of close friends including fleet supervisors, a Ford diesel specialist and few diesel mechanics at indy shops) all disagree with your assertions and experiences.

You assertion that the 5.0 will perform better loaded and/or towing completely erases any credibility you may have had.

All I am trying to do is save readers from your fear mongering, and that is all it is.

You claim to work fleet on diesels, do you care to share exactly what it is you do? It is clear that you are not a mechanic so I would love to know what it is you do in this fleet group. I think it is only fair that if you want people to listen to what you have to say then they should know what it is you are doing that gives you the knowledge and experience you are using to support your claims.

Dirttracker18

Now there is something we could debate about.

Nice job.

As I noted earlier, I don't think it would be about the cost savings, or at least it shouldn't be.

I do believe that this new engine will be ideal for some buyers and suit their needs perfectly.

When the time comes for my next upgrade I will be hard pressed to decided between the EB (especially given the power increase and the new diesel given my own needs and wants.

I live outside of the city and drive into work daily so the fuel savings would not be insignificant. I also tow a TT in the summer that runs around the max tow weight so again the power availability and better towing mpg in the diesel will be of interest to me.

However I do not tow a lot and as an ex racer I love the hotrodness (can I make that word up?) of the EB is a huge draw. It would function great when towing, minus the poor mpg and be a fun toy on a daily basis. I do fear not being able to keep my foot out of it and thus making the mpg worse, lol.

Lucky for me I have some time to let others sort that out and make a decision based on how they are both performing.

Aj06bolt12r

I have been employed as a professional gas and diesel mechanic since 1997. I have maintained fleet vehicles for Penn Dot in Pennsylvania, Conway Southern Express in Nashville and for the last 11 years I have worked for a large power company in Tennessee. The last three years I have been running their largest mechanic shop for them. I am personally responsible for over 200 pieces of equipment. Ranging from Freightliner semi trucks to F550 350 250 150 to small cars to skid steers to Altec and Lift-All aerial equipment. I maintain, diagnose and repair these things daily. I order and install the parts. I see the difference in reliability and cost of parts on the daily.

Your turn, tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Tell me you are better qualified to speak on this subject than I am.

Dirttracker18

No I am not. I will certainly give you the experience factor.

However I stand by my posts. You are basing your opinion on your personal experience with engines that are not comparable to the new engine being debated. You are, by your own admission, trying to ward people away from purchasing this engine. An engine that has, if the speculation is correct about the Range Rover, has already met the new regs and proven itself reliable, strong and well accepted.

You are trying to warn people about something that does not warrant warning, that is fear mongering (definition -the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.) You are attempting to create fear of the new diesel based on your experience which is not with that engine. In fact, again by your own admission, your experience with light duty diesels is with the Powerstroke and no other diesels yet you assert that all late model diesels are problematic, unreliable and short lived.

That is fear mongering and not horse****.

Aj06bolt12r

Right, you are one of the people who has his mind made up and literally nothing I can ever type here will sway you. You are not alone. Ford will sell a ton of these things to people just like you. Maybe you will get lucky but the odds are certainly not in your favor.

Maybe I am fear mongering if that is the text book definition. But my warnings are by no means without merit and people would do well to at least consider my advice carefully during their decision making process.

Nowhere did I say that my only experience is with the powerstroke. I use it as an example because this is a Ford Truck Forum and because they do make up the majority of my truck fleet. But I have experience with Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummins, Caterpillar, Mercedes, Detroit, John Deere, International in the Meduim duty Freightliners (very similar fuel systems to Powerstroke)....
They all struggle mightily with their emissions systems. Its a problem for every single company producing modern street legal diesel engines. Logic dictates that this one will be no different.
Is it possible that is will be a trouble free engine that knocks down 30mpg for 200k over 10 years with nothing other than scheduled maintenance? Yes its possible, exceedingly unlikely, but possible. I'm not betting on it with my vehicle purchasing budget and I could not in good conscience recommend that anyone else do so with theirs.