eurojet

I know this was about payload and i am not arguing your driving experience
This Andy T (Thomson) is the owner of Can Am RV has been in the business since 1970, has written many articles and been published in magazines
I am not affiliated with Andy or Can Am RV , have never been there, or met the man but I think someone whom has been in the business for 46 years would have some knowledge and experience
They have been thinking outside the box when it comes to tow vehicles for a very long time, I think a lot of what it is based on (my opinion) is the different tow ratings for North America and Europe using the same vehicle

I'm sorry if someone pulls In front of any vehicle towing , there is bound to be a collision, I bet the stock brakes on a X5 compared to the stock f150 are better quality, last longer and would stop better in that emergency situation
truck have brakes meant to stop the truck and the trailer has brakes meant to stop the trailer


X5 here is rated lower then the there (2018 X5 6000# here,7700#'s there )
Golf and Jetta rated way lower here then there (they are rated for 3500# there ) they use a different style hitch then what we get here( how it attaches to the frame , plus some other minor things (like Tow springs ) they have won tow car of the year multiple times in the past 6-7 years )



Just reading what was in this article on weight and measures
https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150/specs curb weight 4936#
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x5/specs Curb weight 4680 # even if BMW is only rated for 6000 pounds , they still are going to engineer brakes to effectively stop a 4680# curb weight vehicle , just like for would engineer brakes to stop there 4936# vehicle

think about it like power to weight but vehicle weight to trailer weight

BMW 4680 vw to 6000 tw (i will leave out the 7700# tow rating for europe)
FORD 4936 vw to 7700 tw (for the 3.3l engine max towing ) not to mention the rest of the tow ratings up to 13200# for the 3.5eco with a maybe max 6000# truck so you are talking more than double the actual weight and the ability for the truck but being able to stop better ???
even if you were to max out and use the European spec and someone was towing 8000# with an X5 that is only 3320# more then the tow vehicle not more than double like the max 13200# for the Ford , in all emergency situations Im betting on the BMW to stop faster, shorter .

there is only a 256# difference between the 2 but yet the Fords is rated to tow more and you are saying the F150 would be able to stop better in an emergency situation , Im not sure that is possible because of inertia/momentum (I am not talking about upgraded brakes just stock brakes . even if we were only comparing the 2 vehicles towing the same weight (using the same trailer,same driver , same road theoretically the BMW should win because of weight, and im sure they use a better ABS system and Brakes and maybe have better vehicle weight distribution (ie.. 50/50 or 60/40) which helps in braking and control
Also just like Ford would engineer there base truck to tow 7700# BMW would engineer there frame to tow 6000# 7700 in europe or there would be plenty of law suits

I copied the type of hitch and the way it bolts to the car used in Europe but beefed it up and made it able to accept 2" WD system , purchased the Euro tow springs and a brake controller
and it towed beautifully and stopped fine due to the trailer brakes stopping the trailer My family is the most important thing to me and if i did not think it was safe i would not have done it . I would also would not have done this if i did not have the TDI
I have a truck now because of going much larger with a trailer

acdii

Can't beat physics. A unibody vehicle like a Jetta is not designed to tow a travel trailer, I don't care what anyone says. They do not have a frame to carry the load and stress across the entire vehicle, instead the load and stress is directly on the few bolts that attach the hitch to the chassis, which is thin sheet metal. At some point that metal will fatigue and the hitch will separate causing a loss of control and deaths. Even VW will tell you not to tow with it.

A BMW x5 is an SUV, designed to tow up to 7700 pounds "properly equipped", just the same as any other vehicle designed for towing, but to say it can tow as well as a 1/2 ton pickup that can tow up to twice that much weight when "Properly Equipped" is incorrect. Majority of those will be limited to just under 6000 pounds, with no passengers or cargo in the vehicle. This is where a lot of people make the same mistake. Every single vehicle has a Payload sticker, most automobiles will be around 800 pounds tops. There is also the frontal area to factor in, the more frontal area, the more drag on the tow vehicle, the more stress on the hitch. Find the towing guide for the X5 and look up frontal area limitations, or weight distribution setup, oh, wait, can't, doesn't exist, gee, wonder why.

You Can't Beat Physics!

No automobile is designed to stop both the vehicle and a heavy trailer with stock brakes, I don't care HOW good you may think the vehicles brakes are, they WILL not stop the combination in a reasonable distance. What will you do when the 7 pin comes out for some reason?

This is what you will do

The driver started swaying because the new hitch was improperly setup and during travel the 7 pin came loose and he lost trailer brakes so he could not set the trailer back and lost control. Unfortunately for him, his truck was already out of control so his trucks brakes just made the bad situation worse. If he had known the trailer was disconnected before sway occurred, he would have had no problem slowing ans stopping the rig because the truck has the braking ability to do so, where a car does not.

This is what sets a truck apart from a car when it comes to towing, who cares if the combination can stop faster when all brakes are working, none of them are designed to stop the entire combination by themselves. The BMW brakes are designed to stop with a trailer below 3000 pounds, but not above it. The F150 though can stop the entire 17,700 GCVWR that it is designed to tow, because 4 flat trailers that would put it in that GCVWR have no brakes!

Just because you think it can, doesn't mean you should, a car is NOT designed to tow a travel trailer, Period! The BMW can, but no where near what a 1/2 ton truck is design to tow. I don't care how good you may think everything is, that video above proves that anything can and will go wrong. His original setup worked fine for that trailer, but the hitch got damaged and was replaced, but not properly setup, and the new hitch also caused the pigtail to come loose, both things set him up for disaster.

Putting it another way, a Pickup weighs close to 3 1/2 tons, a car comes in at under 1 1/2 tons, fully loaded. Which one do you think will handle better with a heavy trailer on a windy day? Advantage, truck with 2 tons! There is also a reason trucks don't have sports car like steering, make it too agile and you set yourself up for disaster. It is real easy to make too quick a lane change in a car, which will cause the trailer to whiplash, and all it takes is one moment of forgetting you have that trailer back there to do it.

If you think I am blowing smoke, you haven't been on the road long enough to have seen the stupid things people do, and how unsafe they are. I have. I saw a motorcyclist get cut in half due to his own stupidity by racing at 150+ MPH on the tollway and some lady didn't see him and pulled in front of him. He smacked her so hard the bike was in the passenger seat and he flew into a light pole. Lets just say, one moment he was a speck of light in my mirror, the next he was impacting on the car. I have seen people in small cars cut off a semi and slam on the brakes, winding up under the truck killing them all. I have seen people towing small trailers too fast and losing control and winding up somewhere they were not intending to be, and have seen what happens when an over loaded travel trailer separates from the TV and winds up causing a 5 car pileup and a 10 hour delay by shutting the interstate down so they can cleanup the mess. I have also seen a car towing a trailer that got cutoff, rear ending the vehicle that cut them off and the trailer continued on into the back seat. It was a small enclosed trailer like mine, 6 x12 or so, but the car was not intended to tow anything! If someone rear ends your trailer, it will be in the back seat of that Jetta! It Will rip the hitch off the chassis, and it will continue on until the trunk stops it, and you better pray that the nose of the trailer goes down and not up, or the hitch and everything attached to it will be where you are sitting. I know, I have seen it!

BTW, that setup is great for getting into a jack knife. Ever been in one? Usually the drivers who do wind up DEAD.

8100hd

acdii

LOL Does that mean I can do some car tipping with my Bota?

mich905

I sat in on one of Andy's seminars 2 weeks ago. I sent him an email afterwards to clarify his claims about how a small car with low payload can tow something safely. 2 weeks now, no reply.

8100hd

It won’t if you expect to follow manufactures limits and recommendations. The truth is a car will out handle a truck all the time and Andy uses that to convince his followers. The “but” is you must pay Andy to modify the car and trailer to make it work and he is only one in North America that knows how to do it. Remember towing safely, towing within manufactures limits, and towing legal can be looked at as three different things.

Steve83

Neither a truck nor a car can "handle" a trailer. It takes a driver with experience, and you can't buy experience. If you know how to tow and what your limitations are (like 5mph), you can tow a jobsite office trailer with a Yugo. If you don't know what you're doing, you can flip an Excursion.

acdii

He is using that "grey" area of the law to put people at risk. It all comes down to one thing, Liability. If you tow something in a vehicle not rated to tow anything, or tow over it's rated towing capacity, and have any kind of crash where you are at fault or could have safely stopped or avoided a crash had you been at or under the ratings, then you will be held liable and will spend years in court defending yourself. Auto insurance will only cover you so far, after that, you are on your own. If someone dies, completely different story as you can be charged with Manslaughter.

I have run across this one a few times, but have not been able to find "official" reports of it, but it is on quite a few sites,

It is on http://www.glamisdunes.com, but you have to be a member to view it.

There was another one that I can't relocate where a man was towing a travel trailer with an improper vehicle, could not stop in time when someone blew a stop sign and he ran into them. Even though he had the right of way, he was charged with not being able to avoid a crash due to being overweight. The main reason he was charged was because his wife was killed in the crash. IIRC he was pending a trial for his wife's death.


All I'm saying is use some common sense when it comes to towing. It isn't just you, but your passengers and all the rest of the people who share the road when something goes wrong.

EDIT: something else I came across. I see the remarks, well it is rated to tow in the UK! However, in the UK the tow ratings are quite different than they are here. They use 5% tongue weight and are restricted to no more than 60MPH while towing. Here in the US the gov KNOWS that no one would tow at 60MPH, and therefore restricts tow ratings on cars that in other countries have tow ratings. The UK is very strict as well when it comes to towing. Tow overweight and you lose your license for 3 years along with getting slammed with points.

A&B

acdii

Wait, trailer tires are only rated for 65? Meh, Hammer time boys! yes I have done 80 with mine.