rogerroger

A month ago while taking diesel fuel for my tractor, there was a nice 2500 Sierra with a duramax engine , I asked him if I could look his yellow sticker to see his payload,( because I red somewhere that a F150 HDPP could have the same payload of a f250 power stroke) he agreed, so I looked and it shows a payload of 2602 pounds......for a 3/4 ton ( diesel engine are heavy ) he saw I was smiling he asked why so I told him that we had the same payload.....he told me it was impossible and checked my sticker ....one pound over his, he was surprised... so yes it is possible for a F150 to have the same payload of a 3/4 ton pickup.
Rear axle is 4800 pounds, 9.75 in HD diff.
I red somewhere that the axle tube is 1/4 in. thick on HDPP while regular axle are 3/16 .
And something I know is that my F150 tows a lot better than my previous 2000 F250 (5.4 )for the same load in the trailer and in the pick-up bed.

Gladehound

F150 HDPP's have similar payload to similarly optioned F250 diesels. I cross shopped them extensively before I bought. For towing there are many substantial chassis differences (and I'm not going to touch engines of MPG since there are whole threads on those).

Pros for F250...
- a lot more weight to control whatever you're towing
- slightly more wheel base in same configuration also will help stability
- much heavier running gear so should be less flex in the entire system and not wear as fast
- beefier hitch receiver with higher weight ratings

Pros for F150 HDPP..
- much lower center of gravity
- much better dynamic handling (empty)
- shorter stopping (empty)

It is obvious that for a small enough trailer the F150 HDPP will turn and stop better than an F250 because as the weight of the trailer approaches zero the empty handling characteristics dominate the combination. It also stands to reason that the F250 will have better straight line stability with any trailer due to the mass and wheelbase.

The question I have, and don't have data to answer, is at what trailer size trailer does an F250 become better than the F150 HDPP in dynamic situations like emergency maneuvers and stopping and how is this changed by various hitch options.

Everyone has an opinion and they are all worth about as much as you pay for them. The guys on here with 3/4 ton trucks will say that is what you need. The guys on here with HDPP trucks will say get yourself an HDPP. I've searched the net quite a bit and can't find a single bad tow report for an F150 HDPP truck - but there isn't a huge sample size. You can find bad tow reports for 3/4 ton trucks - but there is a huge sample size.

For the size trailer that the OP discussed, nobody would be able to convince me that they can set up their 3/4 ton to handle better than an F150 HDPP without substantial test data to back it up. I just don't know where that cross over point is and neither does anyone who tells you otherwise.

8100hd

As I’ve said many other posts do the math. Calculate the sway damping ratio and understeer gradient using a f150 and f250 for a given trailer. The vehicle with most mass will come out on top every time as long as the suspension isn’t total crap. Here’s something to try with a hdpp loaded to the GVWR with a trailer and gear. Drop the WD hitch and see if you can maintain 55mph and feel safe driving some distance. What would you do when out traveling in the middle of no where and the hitch breaks and WD is not possible? I can drive my 3/4 ton 60mph near GVWR with no sway or wander with no WD. Are you going to do that with 5k plus lbs on the rear axle and 2600 on the front? This the kind of safety margin I’m referring too.

dodgeman1

I had a 2004 Dodge with a Cummins and a 2011 Chevy with a gasser. The Cummins was probably not any higher GVW than my current F150. The Chevy had a pretty good payload though. Even though on paper they wouldn't tow that much more than a HDPP F150, in the real world they were much more stable. People say "you don't even know its back there". That's not exactly true, you put several thousand pounds behind a truck, you notice it but they tend to be very stable. Yeah, the diesel really kills the payload on a 250 truck. My Cummins had a huge rear axle, a bigger transmission and drive train the a gasser. All that extra weight takes away from the payload. You can't put 500 or more ft-lbs to the rear wheels without making stuff bigger.

Gladehound

All models are wrong, some are useful... I don't recall - do these models include the coefficient of friction of the tow vehicle tires on the test surface? If they don't they went to extreme in trying to keep it simple.

As for the broken hitch scenario... your front end weight is an exaggeration and I'd just drive a bit slower to the next town. Hey, someone's gotta give you a hard time

8100hd

I can take the abuse I’m married. My truck probably carries at least 1100lbs more on the front axle than yours. That extra mass alone goes a long way with both types of stability and is one reason why the F250 can get such a high weight carrying rating.

Mark Miller

Thanks running boards were a factory option on it!!!

8100hd

“The question I have, and don't have data to answer, is at what trailer size trailer does an F250 become better than the F150 HDPP in dynamic situations like emergency maneuvers and stopping and how is this changed by various hitch options.”

If you calculate the effect 1100lbs of hitch weight has on the axles of a f250 in its gas and diesel form then use that ratio to have the same effect on a f150 you end up at @750 and 850 lbs of hitch weight. A HDPP truck has about 100lbs more per axle then a max tow so the difference is minimal.

Gladehound

It doesn't answer the question. If you take and empty F150 into a corner, it will run through that corner faster before reaching it's limit than an empty F250 gas or diesel. It will also stop faster. So I could break down my question like so...

With a 1,000 pound trailer, will and F150 or F250 be able to take a corner faster?
With a 2,000 pound trailer, will and F150 or F250 be able to take a corner faster?
With a 3,000 pound trailer, will and F150 or F250 be able to take a corner faster?
With a 4,000 pound trailer, will and F150 or F250 be able to take a corner faster?

And so on, and so forth. I have the same questions about braking.

Why does an F150 handle better empty than an F250? I don't know the reasons but a suspect a lower center of gravity, higher coefficient of traction on the tires is a big part of it. Differences in suspension probably also play a part.

There is a guy in Canada. I believe the name is Andy T. Who claims a BMW x5 will out emergency handle any 3/4 ton truck with an 8,000 pound TT. He sets the vehicles up and runs them through a test course. I don't know if he actually did the head to head but he certainly has the means to do it.

My point is, there is a lot more to this than weight and wheel base. Yes, there are formula's out there, but they are woefully insufficient to compare vehicles with very different handling dynamics out of the box.

8100hd

What you want is the understeer gradient which can be calculated or measured doing a constant radius test. This test is done as part of the SAE j2807 towing standard. I am well aware of Andy Thompson’s efforts. There are several things he does that I don’t agree with. First he totally ignores vehicle manufacturers ratings and recommendations which would void manufacturers warranty , second is provides no data including vehicle scale weights. He only claims he can achieve equal weight distribution on all four wheels and magically have the same amount squat front to rear. Differences in spring rates and existing loads would make that near impossible. On his airstream forums if you dare to criticize his work in anyway you get booted and posts deleted.