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Confused about spec's

 
Old 08-07-2018, 06:59 PM
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Default Confused about spec's

I have 2018 crew, 5' bed, pay load 1621 with 500lb rated hitch not the A or C just the add on no tow or payload package. I just haul wood, metal, an what not no travel trailer.
Using numbers I see on here 13% of trailer is weight what I can put on hitch so the trailer I can pull can only weigh about 3800lbs. Usually its just me hauling I weigh 170lbs plus 500lbs tongue weight leaves me with 900lbs to put in bed if I understand this right, so my question is whats the difference on my frame loaded this way or just more tongue weight unless I have a cheap hitch. To me the stress is the same or less if I just put more weight on the trailer versus 900 extra pounds in the bed. I hope this makes sense.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:17 AM
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Not exactly sure your question but I think I get it... Basically you're limited to 500 lbs on your hitch, that's tongue weight. If you load your trailer right so that you have 500lbs or less on the tongue, you should be able to haul more than the 900 lbs you can put in your bed since the trailer takes most of the weight. This saves you 400 lbs of weight that would be on the truck.

And yes, the weight of the trailer + everything on it should be no more than about 3800 lbs. So if the trailer weighs 1000 lbs, you can haul 2800 lbs in the trailer. Much more than you can haul in your bed.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackBoost View Post
Not exactly sure your question but I think I get it... Basically you're limited to 500 lbs on your hitch, that's tongue weight. If you load your trailer right so that you have 500lbs or less on the tongue, you should be able to haul more than the 900 lbs you can put in your bed since the trailer takes most of the weight. This saves you 400 lbs of weight that would be on the truck.

And yes, the weight of the trailer + everything on it should be no more than about 3800 lbs. So if the trailer weighs 1000 lbs, you can haul 2800 lbs in the trailer. Much more than you can haul in your bed.
Ford, of course, covers its *** on this one, as well by noting that the braking system is designed for loads up to the GVWR only. So if you have an 800-pound sled trailer and two 500-pound sleds on it, plus two guys and gear totalling about 200 pounds each in the truck, Ford says you're overloaded unless the sled trailer has brakes or you have 2200 pounds of payload to start.

Someone pointed that out this spring on the forum, and while I have to say that I never had any trouble in the above scenario (just have to leave adequate following distance), apparently using a normal single-axle utility trailer as most people do would lead to being outside of the vehicle manufacturer's instructions.

Originally Posted by OwnersManual
GCWR is the maximum allowable weight of the vehicle and the loaded trailer, including all cargo and passengers, that the vehicle can handle without risking damage. (Important: The towing vehicle’s braking system is rated for operation at Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, not at Gross Combined Weight Rating.) Separate functional brakes should be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers where the Gross Combined Weight of the towing vehicle plus the trailer exceed the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the towing vehicle.
(emphasis mine)
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:14 PM
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I'm not real good about explaining but if my frame an suspension can haul that extra 900lbs of weight in the bed of the truck with 3800lbs of trailer why wouldn't my frame an suspension handle that extra 900 in the trailer if I got a higher rated hitch? Then it wouldn't squat to the ground an I could balance the load out?
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordone View Post
I'm not real good about explaining but if my frame an suspension can haul that extra 900lbs of weight in the bed of the truck with 3800lbs of trailer why wouldn't my frame an suspension handle that extra 900 in the trailer if I got a higher rated hitch? Then it wouldn't squat to the ground an I could balance the load out?
The tongue weight is further behind the rear axle than even the rear of the bed, and if you had that weight in the bed of the truck, presumably some of it would be further forward (over or ahead of the rear axle). Too much downward force behind the rear axle unweights the front axle, which impairs steering and braking. Weight over the axle doesn't cause the same issue.

Presumably, 501 pounds of tongue weight isn't going to immediately cause you to wheelie away from a stoplight, so there's some (unknown) amount of engineering wiggle room where the truck behavior wouldn't be impaired beyond what a reasonably competent driver could adjust for, but you'd be outside of the manufacturer-recommended specs and potentially in a tight spot if things go pear-shaped on the road.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kbroderick View Post
Ford, of course, covers its *** on this one, as well by noting that the braking system is designed for loads up to the GVWR only. So if you have an 800-pound sled trailer and two 500-pound sleds on it, plus two guys and gear totalling about 200 pounds each in the truck, Ford says you're overloaded unless the sled trailer has brakes or you have 2200 pounds of payload to start.

Someone pointed that out this spring on the forum, and while I have to say that I never had any trouble in the above scenario (just have to leave adequate following distance), apparently using a normal single-axle utility trailer as most people do would lead to being outside of the vehicle manufacturer's instructions.

(emphasis mine)
That is also why there are laws about a certain weight of trailer requiring its own brakes.

Originally Posted by Fordone View Post
I'm not real good about explaining but if my frame an suspension can haul that extra 900lbs of weight in the bed of the truck with 3800lbs of trailer why wouldn't my frame an suspension handle that extra 900 in the trailer if I got a higher rated hitch? Then it wouldn't squat to the ground an I could balance the load out?
Leverage. What do you do when you're trying to remove a bolt that's stuck with a small ratchet and it can't move? You get a really long breaker bar for more leverage.

Similar principle applies to the truck. The further the weight is away from the back of the truck, the more leverage that weight has. Imagine that stuck bolt is the rear axle (the pivot point). It gets multiplied. This is why trucks that can carry huge payloads will tow those giant 5th wheel trailers. The pin weight in the bed is slightly ahead of the rear axle and keeping the weight on all 4 wheels. If you put that pin weight on a regular bumper hitch, the front tires of the truck would come off the ground.
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Old 08-08-2018, 04:54 PM
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That makes sense...............^^^Thanks to all above^^^
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:59 PM
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The 53B on my 2018 is rated 500/5000 Dead Weight and 1160/11600 Weight Distributing.
Just wanted to point out you have a lot more room to play with if your trailer will accept a budget WDH from Harbor Freight.

53B comes with the same Coolers, Radiator and Fans as 53A and 53C for 2018 so cooling should be fine and trailer towing is up to 6000 lb (2.7 & 3.3) or 7000 lb (3.0, 3.5, 5.0). Apparently the front sway bar is to soft for stability with more weight
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gene K View Post
The 53B on my 2018 is rated 500/5000 Dead Weight and 1160/11600 Weight Distributing.
Just wanted to point out you have a lot more room to play with if your trailer will accept a budget WDH from Harbor Freight.

53B comes with the same Coolers, Radiator and Fans as 53A and 53C for 2018 so cooling should be fine and trailer towing is up to 6000 lb (2.7 & 3.3) or 7000 lb (3.0, 3.5, 5.0). Apparently the front sway bar is to soft for stability with more weight
He just has the basic receiver and nothing else. His hitch is only rated 500 lbs. That's what you get with no towing options.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackBoost View Post
He just has the basic receiver and nothing else.
The 2018 F-150 order guide seems to agree with you. But the 2018 RV and Trailer Towing Guide on page 16 shows that the F-150 with 53B hitch includes the radiator upgrade and higher-power cooling fans that are part of the 53A and 53C trailer tow packages.

However, under required towing equipment for F-150, it says "for trailers over 5,000 pounds, trailer tow package or max trailer tow package". 53B is a hitch, not a towing package. So Gene K is whistling Dixie if he thinks his 53B hitch allows him to tow a trailer that weighs more than 5,000 pounds. The receiver is rated for more than 5,000 pounds, but his F-150 is not rated to tow more than 5,000 pounds without 53A or 53C towing package.

With the 53B receiver hitch, he still needs a WD hitch for tongue weight (TW) more than 500 pounds, which is a tag trailer that grosses no more than about 3,850 pounds. So for a tag trailer that grosses between about 3,850 pounds and 5,000 pounds, a WD hitch is required.

This is still a grey area that requires clarification in the Ford docs. Why does the order guide state that radiator upgrade and high-powered cooling fans are part of 53A and 53C, but not part of 53B? But then the towing guide says that radiator upgrade and high-powered cooling fans are part of 53B as well as 53A and 53C. Is 53B "Class IV trailer hitch" a towing package or just a hitch? The order guide calls it a hitch, while 53A and 53C are called a "trailer tow package".

Last edited by smokeywren; 08-15-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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