There is a fix for the condensation build up in the intercooler!
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Joined: Jun 2012
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First of all, I have yet to get nasty with anyone at any dealership about this truck, even once when it was frankly deserved. Nor have I even mentioned lemon law to any of them much less walked in threatening them with it.
That said, I expect to get this TSB done because they have in their computer "three" previous service visits with these precise problems, not because I saw some TSB on the internet and I'm quite honestly getting a little tired of people blindly defending Ford especially on a problem that IS going to get people killed. And write it down, this truck falling flat on its face in high humidity when you need the throttle IS going to get people killed. Period. Those of you who have experienced it out in the passing lane beside a semi-truck on a two lane road know what I'm talking about. Hell I've nearly had a car behind me sitting in my truck bed just getting on the freeway or once just turning right onto a busy street because they are accelerating and I'm apparently trying to burn water.
I've logged the falling on its face problem and the light throttle shudder @ 55 three times now along with losing my great gas mileage I got for three months when it was new to the tune of 4-5mpg and rough idle so severe on occasion it has required a neutral flip because it feels like it's going to die. I've only had a CEL once to date and whatever code or codes it had were gone after it was restarted at the dealer. That seems to be a common theme with others here too so how can we be expected to have codes latched? Misfire codes in particular apparently don't latch.
No, this is surely all my crappy attitude that needs to change, not a truck that direly needs fixed. Oh sorry, am I being "defensive?"
That said, I expect to get this TSB done because they have in their computer "three" previous service visits with these precise problems, not because I saw some TSB on the internet and I'm quite honestly getting a little tired of people blindly defending Ford especially on a problem that IS going to get people killed. And write it down, this truck falling flat on its face in high humidity when you need the throttle IS going to get people killed. Period. Those of you who have experienced it out in the passing lane beside a semi-truck on a two lane road know what I'm talking about. Hell I've nearly had a car behind me sitting in my truck bed just getting on the freeway or once just turning right onto a busy street because they are accelerating and I'm apparently trying to burn water.
I've logged the falling on its face problem and the light throttle shudder @ 55 three times now along with losing my great gas mileage I got for three months when it was new to the tune of 4-5mpg and rough idle so severe on occasion it has required a neutral flip because it feels like it's going to die. I've only had a CEL once to date and whatever code or codes it had were gone after it was restarted at the dealer. That seems to be a common theme with others here too so how can we be expected to have codes latched? Misfire codes in particular apparently don't latch.
No, this is surely all my crappy attitude that needs to change, not a truck that direly needs fixed. Oh sorry, am I being "defensive?"
Why then, given these conditions, should dealer service personel waste their time reading up on current TSBs with this policy in place...? So, as a rule, they don't.
So the customer begins the complaint process already behind the EIGHT BALL.
Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Take a TSB, or the knowledge of same, to a service manager who clearly should already know of the TSB, but most likely doesn't, and he/she will immediately become defensive.
Gently..gently...
Last edited by wwest; Jun 10, 2012 at 09:20 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 176
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I take it ALL back.
I would drill a small hole at the lowest point in the IC nearest the exit connection (coolest point) install a small copper tube, not quite capillary size, and connect the other end directly to the intake manifold downstream of the throttle plate.
That, or construct a venturi device mounted in the center of the IC exit connection and terminate the new tube as a venturi inlet source. Cruise mode airflow, or even airflow above cruise, flowing through the venturi device would SUCK any condensate from the lowest cool side point in the IC and vaporize it CONTINUOUSLY into the air stream.
Properly done, thought out, designed, the entire assembly could be installed inside the IC.
Result: No pooling of condensate, no reflash detuning of boost parameters required.
I would drill a small hole at the lowest point in the IC nearest the exit connection (coolest point) install a small copper tube, not quite capillary size, and connect the other end directly to the intake manifold downstream of the throttle plate.
That, or construct a venturi device mounted in the center of the IC exit connection and terminate the new tube as a venturi inlet source. Cruise mode airflow, or even airflow above cruise, flowing through the venturi device would SUCK any condensate from the lowest cool side point in the IC and vaporize it CONTINUOUSLY into the air stream.
Properly done, thought out, designed, the entire assembly could be installed inside the IC.
Result: No pooling of condensate, no reflash detuning of boost parameters required.
Last edited by wwest; Jun 11, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
Resident Piñata
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,935
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Get to know, make friends with the service writers! They'll do a little more for you if they like you! It's only human nature! My local Ford dealer is full of award winning Jackasses, but I've found a sweet gal service writer that really tries to help. I bring her copied DVD's for her young kids when I go by even if I don't have a reason to go to the agency. It's not really kissing up or bribery, but just being nice to people that were nice to you. She will go the extra mile for me & I let her know I appreciate it. Establishing a relationship like that won't fix every problem, but a least you have someone trying to help you through the Ford dealer bureaucracy.
Last edited by opinyawn; Jun 10, 2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
Likes: 34
From: Northern, Va
I had a guy the other day drop off his 2012 $55k SUV (not ford), with a laundry list of complaints about almost every system on the vehicle. When he dropped it off, he said "I know some of these can be fixed by TSB's that are out". I said "We'll look it over, and see what we can see."
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 995
Likes: 130
Originally Posted by Jbrowning22
I had a guy the other day drop off his 2012 $55k SUV (not ford), with a laundry list of complaints about almost every system on the vehicle. When he dropped it off, he said "I know some of these can be fixed by TSB's that are out". I said "We'll look it over, and see what we can see."
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 176
Likes: 7
I had a guy the other day drop off his 2012 $55k SUV (not ford), with a laundry list of complaints about almost every system on the vehicle. When he dropped it off, he said "I know some of these can be fixed by TSB's that are out". I said "We'll look it over, and see what we can see."
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
We couldn't duplicate a single one. During lunch, I sat down and went through his ticket while searching on the manufacturers system for applicable TSB's. There weren't any. I called him up and said "sorry man, we can't find anything. If its alright with you, I can have the shop foreman take the vehicle home for the night to see if he can duplicate any of them.". He said "No, I need to pick it up. Did you do the TSB's?". I said "No, we couldn't find any problems. But, I did a search to see if your complaints matched any TSB's and there aren't any that are remotely close.". He flys off the handle about how we didn't want to do the TSBs, and I explained that no matter how badly I wanted to do them, it didn't matter because there wernt any. He said he was going to print them out and bring them in. I said "awesome! See you in a bit".
So he shows up an hour later with a stack of them. Only problem......they were all for 2011, and his was a 2012. No amount of explanation or reasoning could convince this guy that we couldn't do a 2011 TSB on a 2012, and even if we could there would be no point. It finally came down to "Ok, you need to leave now."
I just stood there and shook my head about the whole thing. Never once did I tell him he didn't have a problem, I even wanted to look at it longer.
Situations like this are why Service Advisors and managers DO NOT GIVE A **** when a customer says "But there's a TSB!!!". Sorry, the general public has ruined it for everyone.
And you also make it obvious that you didn't find the TSBs since you were looking for TSBs for a 2012 model.
And here I thought TSBs applied moreso to the VIN, date of manufacture, rather than MY...
It was time for you to call a factory rep and get to the bottom of this.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 178
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Do you really mean to say that your customer has a valid list of TSB's, TSB's that closely matched the customer's complaints, and you took it for granted that they would not apply since the TSB's were for a 2011 model and his was a 2012...??
And you also make it obvious that you didn't find the TSBs since you were looking for TSBs for a 2012 model.
And here I thought TSBs applied moreso to the VIN, date of manufacture, rather than MY...
It was time for you to call a factory rep and get to the bottom of this.
And you also make it obvious that you didn't find the TSBs since you were looking for TSBs for a 2012 model.
And here I thought TSBs applied moreso to the VIN, date of manufacture, rather than MY...
It was time for you to call a factory rep and get to the bottom of this.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 176
Likes: 7
And that might be because Canadian laws, legal system, emissions regulations, differ from those in the US. So it isn't necesarily that a given TSB doesn't apply to a valid customer complaint, it may be that the manufacturer has no legal obligation to do so under Canadian rules or regulations.
Import a Canadian car with DRL into the US and then try to get a US dealer to fix the DRL system under warranty, or even act on a TSB that quite clearly pertains to the car's DRL system.
But it does make one wonder what would happen with a Canadian registered car at a dealer with a DRL complaint covered by the manufacturer's warranty.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
Likes: 34
From: Northern, Va
Do you really mean to say that your customer has a valid list of TSB's, TSB's that closely matched the customer's complaints, and you took it for granted that they would not apply since the TSB's were for a 2011 model and his was a 2012...??
And you also make it obvious that you didn't find the TSBs since you were looking for TSBs for a 2012 model.
And here I thought TSBs applied moreso to the VIN, date of manufacture, rather than MY...
It was time for you to call a factory rep and get to the bottom of this.
And you also make it obvious that you didn't find the TSBs since you were looking for TSBs for a 2012 model.
And here I thought TSBs applied moreso to the VIN, date of manufacture, rather than MY...
It was time for you to call a factory rep and get to the bottom of this.
If your not..... I'll keep the explanation short. Every model year is treated as a totally separate vehicle when it comes to TSB's; especially with software updates. You can't update software that is already updated, and trying to flash a 2012 to 2011 specs is akin to trying to install a windows update disc in your Mac. You couldn't even do it if you wanted to, regardless of the brand (there are laws that regulate this).
Legit complaints or not, all previous TSB's have already been "applied/addressed" through manufacturing changes in the ext model year. Even if they weren't, no car manufacturer on the planet will pay for a dealer to do a TSB on a car it doesn't apply to.
As for calling the area rep, his/her first question will always be "what were you able to duplicate?"
