There is a fix for the condensation build up in the intercooler!
10-02-2012, 04:57 PM
#651
Senior Member
Well, the guy I bought it from is a childhood friend and was in the truck with me. I was pulling the same boat that I was towing the first time I noticed the issue back in may. Actually, on the same route... From n ga to st George island in fl. He was with me then too. The truck never went into limp mode on this trip, and we came thru the perfect weather for it to happen. But, there is absolutely a noticeable difference in power with towing. Such that he called back to the service mgr on Sunday afternoon to talk to him about it. I would never complain about how hard these guys, good friends, are working to try to help resolve this. They're trying to see if ford will allow them to swap the new intake(smaller and more restricted) for the original design now that the truck has the new ic. No offense intended from my end either, but I'd tell you just as I told the engineer from ford that thought I was dreaming these things up. I spend so much time on the road, that I can tell when things change on the truck.
10-02-2012, 05:00 PM
#652
Senior Member
I have always thought the shudder issue is due to poor wastegate control at low rpm and/or low load conditions. I base this on what I see when monitoring the boost levels in those same condition via the OBD output in my Torque app. At low load (e.g. 1500 rpm in 6th gear, or ~55-60mph) I see the boost level jumping from ~1-5psi. I think the wastegate has a really hard time keeping a steady boost at low levels, especially when at low rpm. Makes sense to me... 2 small turbos with 2 small wastegates trying to modulate to hold a small boost level.
If you go down to 5th gear in the same conditions, there is no shudder that I can feel.
If you go down to 5th gear in the same conditions, there is no shudder that I can feel.
10-02-2012, 10:05 PM
#653
Senior Member
Originally Posted by maplelakeduckslayer
Are you sure the weather wasn't much hotter or way more humid? I ask because I noticed a big difference when I was towing approx 8,000 lbs back in March and then over 4th of July. When I towed the load in March the truck would barely shift outta 6th gear, even on slight grade. It downshifted to 5th gear a handful of times on that trip. 4th of July, on the same exact route and after having the two previous TSB's performed(reprogramed and IC shield) the truck downshifted all the way to 4th twice, and downshifted to 5th frequently. Kinda chalked some of this up to towing at 40 degrees vs. towing at 90 degrees, but also wondered if the reprogram and shield hurt the towing performance. Guess I'll know when I tow the load again this Winter.
10-03-2012, 08:05 AM
#654
Yes sir. It was much worse in the humidity for me here in the south this summer. The biggest problem I had was after a long period of cruise the next time I'd try to accelerate the truck would go into limp mode, mostly not towing. The shift problems have occurred on mine anytime I've towed anything from a small utility trailer to my boat, if the truck is in tow haul mode. The new ic and intake were suppose to correct the limp mode issue that ford attributed to the moisture issue. It hasn't done done it since the change, but there is a noticeable difference in power. The new intake is more restricted for sure
10-03-2012, 10:10 AM
#655
Yes sir. It was much worse in the humidity for me here in the south this summer. The biggest problem I had was after a long period of cruise the next time I'd try to accelerate the truck would go into limp mode, mostly not towing. The shift problems have occurred on mine anytime I've towed anything from a small utility trailer to my boat, if the truck is in tow haul mode. The new ic and intake were suppose to correct the limp mode issue that ford attributed to the moisture issue. It hasn't done done it since the change, but there is a noticeable difference in power. The new intake is more restricted for sure
If your truck does have a new IC/CAC I need to see detailed pictures of it.
The pictures posted a couple of pages ago with the IC cover on it are no different than my truck, and that is a solution that does not work in my climate.
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10-03-2012, 03:32 PM
#656
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Are you sure the weather wasn't much hotter or way more humid? I ask because I noticed a big difference when I was towing approx 8,000 lbs back in March and then over 4th of July. When I towed the load in March the truck would barely shift outta 6th gear, even on slight grade. It downshifted to 5th gear a handful of times on that trip. 4th of July, on the same exact route and after having the two previous TSB's performed(reprogramed and IC shield) the truck downshifted all the way to 4th twice, and downshifted to 5th frequently. Kinda chalked some of this up to towing at 40 degrees vs. towing at 90 degrees, but also wondered if the reprogram and shield hurt the towing performance. Guess I'll know when I tow the load again this Winter.
Your turbocharged engine is probably "flat-rated" as is often done with turbocharged aircraft engines. The alternative is to have lots of HP in cool climates but lowered as the climate temperature grows higher and higher.
The effectiveness of the intercooler is a function of the temperature of the cooling airflow. At 0F the intercooler would clearly be more efficient, effective, than at the extreme of 120F. With flat-rating imposed by the control computer the maximum HP generated at the 120F extreme would be the artificially imposed limit all the way down to 0F.
Ford added the shield in order to lower the efficiency of the intercooler and to prevent condensation. That shield would also have a greater and greater adverse effect on the intercooler efficiency as the outside temperature rises, reducing the maximum HP with high cooling air temperature.
So the reason your truck downshifted more often after the TSB is because it is most likely flat-rated, the lower HP that can now be produced at those high temperatures dictates the HP limit all the way down to freezing and below.
Am I reading this correctly, those with the newest intercooler design are still experiencing the condensation problem?
Last edited by jaswood; 10-03-2012 at 05:25 PM.
10-03-2012, 04:40 PM
#657
Different Look
I have a different opinion on the problem. My truck has been in a number of times for major misfires during acceleration.
FYI if you want to get engine light from problem, hold the accelerator down to floor if safe to do so when it occurs. After 20 to 30 seconds it will throw a code that the dealer can use and still not fix your truck. (but at least you have proof)
I have purchased a OBDII reader and used my Android Phone using torch app and have watched the PSI gauge while driving on cruise control.
I can almost predict when the truck will act up. About 1.5 to 2 hours driving in rain or snow.
I have noticed that normal cruising down highway using cruise control the turbo is not producing any boost. In fact the gauge show a vacuum.
I believe that their is very small leak in the inter cooler or piping. The vacuum sucks the water in while cruising.
Just a thought.
FYI if you want to get engine light from problem, hold the accelerator down to floor if safe to do so when it occurs. After 20 to 30 seconds it will throw a code that the dealer can use and still not fix your truck. (but at least you have proof)
I have purchased a OBDII reader and used my Android Phone using torch app and have watched the PSI gauge while driving on cruise control.
I can almost predict when the truck will act up. About 1.5 to 2 hours driving in rain or snow.
I have noticed that normal cruising down highway using cruise control the turbo is not producing any boost. In fact the gauge show a vacuum.
I believe that their is very small leak in the inter cooler or piping. The vacuum sucks the water in while cruising.
Just a thought.
10-03-2012, 04:41 PM
#658
Member
I have felt another shudder though that starts because I'm in 6th and lock up, 50-55mph or so, encounter a sudden load like a hill or headwind, and instead of unlocking and downshifting, it like refuses, more lugging, and then it sounds like the turbos and waste gates start fighting each other and there's a downward spiral. I don't think this one is related to moisture at all since I've had it happen in low humidity. If you are only at 1400-1500rpm in high gear and encounter a load, the stupid truck ought to unlock at minimum and downshift if necessary.
Anyone else seen this specific shudder?
Anyone else seen this specific shudder?
.FWIW, I have also had the 'fall on its face' rapid misfire happen, but only once, and that was during extended light load in rainy conditions. This is definitely the IC condensation issue.
10-03-2012, 04:42 PM
#659
Member
Used to think the same thing...maybe it the higher RPM's that makes the difference. But I was doing some extensive testing this morning and went up a slight grade at a little over 30 mph, 5th gear, and it was doing the same exact thing as when its in 6th, the misfire type feeling where you can hear it in the turbos. I have rarely had it happen in 5th however.
If you have the ability, watch the boost psi in those same conditions.
10-03-2012, 05:19 PM
#660
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I have a different opinion on the problem. My truck has been in a number of times for major misfires during acceleration.
FYI if you want to get engine light from problem, hold the accelerator down to floor if safe to do so when it occurs. After 20 to 30 seconds it will throw a code that the dealer can use and still not fix your truck. (but at least you have proof)
I have purchased a OBDII reader and used my Android Phone using torch app and have watched the PSI gauge while driving on cruise control.
I can almost predict when the truck will act up. About 1.5 to 2 hours driving in rain or snow.
I have noticed that normal cruising down highway using cruise control the turbo is not producing any boost. In fact the gauge show a vacuum.
I believe that their is very small leak in the inter cooler or piping. The vacuum sucks the water in while cruising.
Just a thought.
FYI if you want to get engine light from problem, hold the accelerator down to floor if safe to do so when it occurs. After 20 to 30 seconds it will throw a code that the dealer can use and still not fix your truck. (but at least you have proof)
I have purchased a OBDII reader and used my Android Phone using torch app and have watched the PSI gauge while driving on cruise control.
I can almost predict when the truck will act up. About 1.5 to 2 hours driving in rain or snow.
I have noticed that normal cruising down highway using cruise control the turbo is not producing any boost. In fact the gauge show a vacuum.
I believe that their is very small leak in the inter cooler or piping. The vacuum sucks the water in while cruising.
Just a thought.
When the outside temperature and dewpoint are close together all it takes to produce condensation in the intercooler is more vacuum on the outflow side vs the inlet side...no "boost" required. The denser airflow within the intercooler is cooled very close to the outside air temperature and then allowed to expand, creating a "cooling" pressure gradient, as it enters the higher volume of the outflow end cap.