Ford850

Using your linked chart, the highest months for RH for my area are winter. Interesting. The highest RH month for me (again per that chart) is Dec. And as I have documented on this site several times, the most my catch can has collected by far was during December.

Theocoog

You're in the south?

Ford850

[QUOTE=Theocoog;3509119]You're in the south?[/QUOTE
Northern Ohio.

Tuner Boost

Absolutely have proven this. The water accumulating in the CAC has no relation to rain or summer heat and humidity as it is not collecting int he CAC from the outside air alone. It is only what is released in the combustion process during the extreme pressure and heat. Just as we see with our air compressors, and these are 80 gal industrial units. If it is not under 120-1980 PSI of pressure, just air in a tank does nothing. It is through the intense compression and the heat generate during this that causes it to separate and condense/collect in the tanks, and we drain this daily as all machinery here uses compressed air in some form. Take a CAC and a high volume air blower and run it all day long.....all week long and zero water will collect in it.

The water we are seeing is what is released during the combustion process and while 99% plus is expelled out the exhaust, some enters the crankcase via blow-by past the rings. this is what needs to be constantly and immediately evacuated through the IM vacuum and thus burned through the combustion process BEFORE it can accumulate and condense in the crankcase as it does in the EB due to the lack of evacuation except at idle and low throttle. If this was NOT the case, then we surely would still be getting water accumulation in the CAC after the RX crankcase evac fix, correct? So if your theory is correct as you keep insisting, please answer me this question.....why after the RX system is installed dies the CAC no longer collect ANY liquids? And why in all the millions of other turbo systems with proper PCV systems do they accumulate little or none as well?

So, NO rain has nothing to do with it as I went over and over in my long post yesterday.

Please read (as you claim you do, but still ask the same questions over and over....and if your not persecuting, what the heck is this?



Again, you have it backwards. The water that is collecting in the CAC is only there after turning to steam when released during the combustion process. You attack me for not continuously answering the same questions, yet not once will any of you explain why with over 300 EB's with the RX system not a single one collects any liquid in the CAC any more, winter or summer, rain or dry, cold or hot. Neither do the millions of others. So please ( I know you all are afraid to post your actual credentials, certifications, and qualifications on this subject as well no matter how many times asked...why is that?)

So....as your dead wrong with your assumptions, but wont admit it, please tell me how not a single RX equipped EB has never had any more water in the CAC? How?

All we have, as you keep claiming an untrue statement as fact (RH), is the actual tests in -40-50*F to mid 90's and 90% humidity and torrential flooding rains, yet we see LESS water int he warm weather caught, and ZERO in the CAC winter or summer. So how about just answer some questions you all keep avoiding or ignoring....explain how every single RX equipped EB has zero water/gunk anymore reaching the CAC or the intake manifold? How have every single one now have zero misfire and shudder issues in the summer rain? And not a single one has their oil level rising with fuel and water mix?




Amen for someone actually looking the facts up.......which correlates with what the owners with the RX system installed are seeing.

packplantpath

Just wanted you on the record. I think 99% of people who have had the problem can read that and make up their own mind. Everybody I've ever seen complain was driving in rain or fog. The fact you see less in the can in the summer and rain is the evidence that the problem isn't related to the PCV.

You know Ford disagrees that it isn't weather related, right?

So I can chose to believe you or Ford and real world observations.

TSB Information:

3.5L GTDI—INTERMITTENT STUMBLE/MISFIRE ON TSB 12-10-19
ACCELERATION FROM HIGHWAY CRUISE IN HUMID
OR DAMP CONDITIONS WITH POSSIBLE DTC

FORD:
2011-2012 F-150

This article supersedes TSB*12-6-4*to remove theproduction fix date, update the Title, Issue*Statement, Part List and Service Procedure.


ISSUE
Some 2011-2012 F-150 vehicles equippend with a*3.5L gasoline turbocharged direct injection (GTDI)*EcoBoost engine may exhibit an intermittent engine*surge during moderate to light loads at cruise,*stumble and/or misfire on hard acceleration after an*extended drive at highway speeds during high*humid or damp conditions. This could result in a*steady or flashing malfunction indicator lamp (MIL)*with diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) primarily formisfire P0300, P0304, P0305, P0306. DTCs P0430*and/or P0299 may also be present.





As to why a can appears to fix it, that is extremely simple. It is rare. It requires a very specific set of circumstances to occur. And those have to be followed with very aggressive acceleration or heavy load causing boost spikes.

To probe a rare event requires a very large number of tests. Tens of thousands, or a few hundred in a controlled, randomized experiment. And you only sold 300. If it is such a common issue why has mine only exhibited problems once in 13,000 miles? Why do most report no issues? Why do most have no issues and those that do only have then infrequently for the most part? I have no complaints about your claims regarding gas in oil. For those with that problem, I believe it can fix it. I have no doubts that the can will keep most or all oil or of the cac. But your claim regarding condensation ignores the difference between the ecoboost and every other turbo engine I've ever seen, ignores basic physics, and doesn't match the observational data and claims of the manufacturer regarding the relationship to weather patterns. So, yes, I think everybody who reads your above post and has had the acute condensation misfire problem will quickly come to the conclusion that this is not a fix for that problem. And that is why I asked the question. To get it on the record.

Let me give you an analogy. I do statistics every day. You and a great ape share 98% or so of your DNA. If I sampled your DNA at only a few hundred sites, should I conclude that you are a chimp, or that maybe a larger sample size would be useful? Because odds are, my first sample says you are a chimp.

Tuner Boost

So you still dont answer MY questions....just skirt right around them. PLEASE state how 100% of users of the RX system now have eliminated all of these issues?

And why is Ford now (you quote a pretty outdated statement by Ford for the NTSB and the public with the normal spin all auto makers put on anything negative) installing the RX systems and the first service departments are reporting the same results I quote?


And so, your calling all 300 plus that installed the RX system liars, correct? And the Ford dealers now doing this?

You still wont answer why not a single one is getting any water accumulation in the CAC since installing the RX system either.

packplantpath

That wasn't spin from ford. That was the repair tsb for their technicians. There are about 5 versions now, all with the same wording. Ford says it is correlated to atmospheric moisture. Not me, ford. I happen to observe that the reports of the problem in the wild also correlate with atmospheric moisture levels. So your claim that it doesn't requires extraordinarily high evidence to be proven. Evidence that is sorely lacking. I've got an informal poll going on the site now. Last I looked all but one said they were driving in the rain. Very small sample size. But it matches the history of the problem on this forum for the last 3 years. So why should I doubt it?

I did answer your question. No the customers are not liars. They are anecdotes. The water accumulation is RARE. It require very specific conditions to occur, to be followed by heavy acceleration. Most people never experienced it because they don't follow the required steps. Those that do, excepting a few who make long drives every morning on damp weather, only experience it rarely. So a 3 month sample of 300 trucks is the equivalent of me sampling 1% of your DNA and concluding you are a chimp. It's silly. They could drive in conducive conditions and have ounces of water, but unless they hit the has hard, they will never know! Once it quits raining, it will dry out within a short drive. So how would they know?

Why don't I have water accumulation in mine all the time. I've proven it can happen, because I had classic limp mode symptoms once. I pulled my cac after driving in rain and had water, so why has it been dry every time I've looked since? Seriously, bone dry. If you were right, this should be impossible. But it isn't. It's actually common. I don't have to explain this, ford did that for me.

Why aren't more of them having problems if it is coming from the engine? Because our of 300,00+ sold, it simply isn't that common.

I have zero credentials, but I know enough about engines and physics to know that your story doesn't hold water.

There is an easy test. Have one of your customers go for a drive in the rain for two hours at 60 mph with no hard acceleration. Then pull their CAC and empty it on video.

ID encourage left plate to do this. I don't think he would lie about it.

Left Plate

We don't get that much rain in Utah! Besides, I am running the Full-Race CAC.
But the OP might be interested if you guys didn't scare him off?

Tuner Boost

Madhoc...I just read you stating you have the drill hole.....so of course your no longer collecting water in the CAC...it drains out the hole.....thats pretty misleading to post "you collect no water in yours".....Were discussing those with the RX system and NO drill hole that had CAC collecting before, and no longer do after installing the system.

Misleading helps no one here.

MadocHandyman

I assume you are talking to me? I never said I don't collect water in my CAC, I said I've never had any gunk come out of it and I've never had the misfire issue.
I drove 40000 km without issue before drilling the hole and another 40000 km since drilling without issue. So, while I am still able to drain excess moisture, my PCV and intake system is still doing it's job by circulating and burning off the majority of whatever is going through the CAC back through the intake.