Ecoboost Valve Deposit Discussion
04-06-2014, 05:36 PM
#101
That would be pushing 5000+ hours on a gas motor and that is pushing its life to nearing its lucky max without overhaul !
04-06-2014, 08:07 PM
#102
I may be going against the grain, but the picture at 30k miles is of my truck. I simply was curious and wanted to see what was in there. I would have been happy to have it be clean. My truck has spent most of its life driving to and from work. I previously worked 35 miles from home, so it would get about 70 miles round trip. I currently work 4 miles from home.
My mileage obviously sucks because of working so close and how short my trips are. However, I have seen a pickup in MPG, since doing my cleaning and at the same time installing my OCC. Now I cannot say for sure which one had the bigger impact. I did not dyno before the cleaning, aside form doing some runs a couple years ago comparing intakes and tunes. Like I said the biggest improvement has been mpgs for me. I have been keeping track of fuel mileage, but I dont have any graphs prepared.
I for one am all about keeping my truck going for many years to come. I also had a Focus ST with the 2.0 EB and seen similar deposits along with a couple buddy's of mine that seen the same thing. Just saying for the record.
I think for an average joe to provide any real data would be difficult unless one could verify conditions and all other variables were common before and after. I did my cleaning personally and it did not look near as clean as the pictures early on in this thread, but I did the best I could. Performance is a rather subjective topic. For some, they want to eek out every ounce. Where doing something that cost several hundred dollars will gain back or restore a small percentage. I think the valve coking is not a good thing, and I think its effects will be seen long term. Like once you get 100k-200k and higher. My guess if I just drove my truck for a couple years and traded it in, I would not mess with anything on it.
I still think its hard to convince someone one way or the other, its all about whats worth it to that individual. I took the gamble and hope it pays off.
My mileage obviously sucks because of working so close and how short my trips are. However, I have seen a pickup in MPG, since doing my cleaning and at the same time installing my OCC. Now I cannot say for sure which one had the bigger impact. I did not dyno before the cleaning, aside form doing some runs a couple years ago comparing intakes and tunes. Like I said the biggest improvement has been mpgs for me. I have been keeping track of fuel mileage, but I dont have any graphs prepared.
I for one am all about keeping my truck going for many years to come. I also had a Focus ST with the 2.0 EB and seen similar deposits along with a couple buddy's of mine that seen the same thing. Just saying for the record.
I think for an average joe to provide any real data would be difficult unless one could verify conditions and all other variables were common before and after. I did my cleaning personally and it did not look near as clean as the pictures early on in this thread, but I did the best I could. Performance is a rather subjective topic. For some, they want to eek out every ounce. Where doing something that cost several hundred dollars will gain back or restore a small percentage. I think the valve coking is not a good thing, and I think its effects will be seen long term. Like once you get 100k-200k and higher. My guess if I just drove my truck for a couple years and traded it in, I would not mess with anything on it.
I still think its hard to convince someone one way or the other, its all about whats worth it to that individual. I took the gamble and hope it pays off.
04-07-2014, 07:31 AM
#103
Boost Junkie
Starting from when the truck was new, I had poor mileage. It peaked at best when I was in that 5k-10k mile range. Since then I have seen in drop a bit. I do a lot of mixed, lots of country roads, and not a ton of highway. This past winter with the combination of my short trips, winter fuel, cold it really dropped. With the same drive over the past couple weeks, I have seen my mileage gradually increase, now temps have also been getting better, and I am not sure if the fuel has been switched over yet or not so I cannot account for that variable.
04-07-2014, 10:53 AM
#104
Car Lover
I find it interesting how the original poster slipped in that this isn't even an F150 EB he is using for the basis of his data later. I thought it was proven that the F150 had a much different intake tract and was more susceptible to the issues than the other vehicles using this engine? I can say on my wife's 700 mile trip last week our truck fell on its face 4 times when more than 1/2 throttle was used in the humid conditions we are having here in Texas lately. Also with regards to the deposits on the valves I remember many times seeing factory trained technicians (before DI) take and slowly pour a cup of regular tap water directly into the intake stream to clean deposits. I with my own eyes saw (and heard) the difference. With that said if they had taken a cup of the sludge that has been getting emptied from the catch cans into the intake I bet the story would be much different.
Somehow as seems to be the case on this forum way to often when anyone says anything thats not 100% positive about Ford they become a victim of constant attacks. The one thing that can't be argued is that there is a problem, if not why does Ford have TSB's/fixes/Patents/Designs to alleviate the issue..
How anyone can argue that this crap going thru your engine is a good thing is beyond me. It reminds me of not so long ago when it was thought that there was no issue with tobacco use because the companies (OEM's) were telling up it was so..
FYI I don't have a catch can but its on my list after what my wife had to experience this weekend, our F150 is our bad weather vehicle so we really need it to work 100% in those cases. I just changed my oil at 22k and sent the sample to blackstone to see what we find, I have never had a vehicle blacken the oil so fast with so few miles and I have owned a lot of cars (its a sickness).
Somehow as seems to be the case on this forum way to often when anyone says anything thats not 100% positive about Ford they become a victim of constant attacks. The one thing that can't be argued is that there is a problem, if not why does Ford have TSB's/fixes/Patents/Designs to alleviate the issue..
How anyone can argue that this crap going thru your engine is a good thing is beyond me. It reminds me of not so long ago when it was thought that there was no issue with tobacco use because the companies (OEM's) were telling up it was so..
FYI I don't have a catch can but its on my list after what my wife had to experience this weekend, our F150 is our bad weather vehicle so we really need it to work 100% in those cases. I just changed my oil at 22k and sent the sample to blackstone to see what we find, I have never had a vehicle blacken the oil so fast with so few miles and I have owned a lot of cars (its a sickness).
The following 2 users liked this post by Bills96TA:
bk117wrench (04-07-2014),
canddmeyer (04-07-2014)
04-07-2014, 11:01 AM
#105
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I find it interesting how the original poster slipped in that this isn't even an F150 EB he is using for the basis of his data later. I thought it was proven that the F150 had a much different intake tract and was more susceptible to the issues than the other vehicles using this engine?
I believe the only differences in the F150's intake vs the car/SUV are these:
1. Car/SUV use an aluminum intake, the F150's is composite (plastic)
2. Car/SUV has a smaller intercooler and runs a little warmer due to packaging in an FWD application (they are all transverse FWD with a PTU to get AWD).
AFAIK the PCV systems are the same or very close across all lines - I believe the F150's separator is internal to the valve cover where the car's is a box on the rear valve cover.
So the cars run a little warmer and I believe that doesn't allow the condensation to form in the CAC. I can say in 73k I've never experienced it in the car.
For your issues, do you have the latest TSB? Results on that one seem to be that it fixes it for many. And even then others have found that bad coils also seem to be the culprit. The problem seems to be getting a good dealer that will actually take the time to troubleshoot vs just try TSB's.
04-07-2014, 11:15 AM
#106
Car Lover
I have not taken my truck into fix the issue as there hasn't been a fix yet, they all look good for a short period of time. I hadn't changed anything until 5 minutes ago, I went outside and drilled the 1/16" hole in the bottom of my intercooler (I drilled straight up the DS mount point, the round button that goes into the rubber grommet). I know its not the perfect lowest point but it also would provide me with the answer I wanted. I started the truck and it sprayed a fluid for a few seconds. I immediately went to my wife (who isn't mechanically inclined at all, she is a Pharmacist) and asked her what she smelled...gas. I didn't steer her at all just asked for her honest opinion, to me its a mix of gas and oil but I have been around this stuff forever. I told her about the catch can and she is like...why doesn't ford pay for it or fix it...what do I say?
The following users liked this post:
bk117wrench (04-07-2014)
04-07-2014, 11:56 AM
#107
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I's still let Ford take a stab it. It's their issue and I think the fixes have worked for some. The latest one looks to be promising but we will have to wait and see. Heck, one member here had the fixes, and the issues returned. Found out it was a coil pack going bad.
Doesn't surprise me that you got fluid that smelled like gas and oil. All cars recirculate the PCV gasses back to the intake. Pop a PCV line off any car and you will smell oil and gas. I know I can on the wife's Escape. Problem is that the water gets in and it pools in the CAC. So you get water, gas, and oil.
I still don't think the catch can does anything other than increase the headroom by removing the PCV stuff from the equation. So if it takes you 1 hour to get enough water to cause issue now it may take 1.5 or 2 because you have removed the PCV stuff. But you have a great marketing team in those catch can folks. When the most heavily promoted has only been making them for a few months and the issue seems to be mainly concentrated in the spring/summer. And even then only to certain trucks.
Doesn't surprise me that you got fluid that smelled like gas and oil. All cars recirculate the PCV gasses back to the intake. Pop a PCV line off any car and you will smell oil and gas. I know I can on the wife's Escape. Problem is that the water gets in and it pools in the CAC. So you get water, gas, and oil.
I still don't think the catch can does anything other than increase the headroom by removing the PCV stuff from the equation. So if it takes you 1 hour to get enough water to cause issue now it may take 1.5 or 2 because you have removed the PCV stuff. But you have a great marketing team in those catch can folks. When the most heavily promoted has only been making them for a few months and the issue seems to be mainly concentrated in the spring/summer. And even then only to certain trucks.
04-07-2014, 12:00 PM
#108
Once again, I'd like to see a comparison of the number of high mileage engines still on the road, with and without a catch can.
I've had 3 trucks with high mileage and neither one ever had a can. My last one before the Eco, '99 F250 w/5.4, had 500000+ kms (the odometer quit working) and it still ran great.
I've had 3 trucks with high mileage and neither one ever had a can. My last one before the Eco, '99 F250 w/5.4, had 500000+ kms (the odometer quit working) and it still ran great.
Question, these were all direct injection engines? The 5.4 is port injection and the fuel injectors constantly bath the intake valves with detergent fuel so deposits should never form as you can see in the diagrams in the first few pages. The intake valve coking issue is a DI issue as you can run 200-300k miles with a port injection engine and never have any deposits whatsoever, yet in 2-10k miles a DI engine is already forming these.
And yes, most of the photos are the Ford Ecoboost.
04-07-2014, 12:48 PM
#109
I's still let Ford take a stab it. It's their issue and I think the fixes have worked for some. The latest one looks to be promising but we will have to wait and see. Heck, one member here had the fixes, and the issues returned. Found out it was a coil pack going bad.
Doesn't surprise me that you got fluid that smelled like gas and oil. All cars recirculate the PCV gasses back to the intake. Pop a PCV line off any car and you will smell oil and gas. I know I can on the wife's Escape. Problem is that the water gets in and it pools in the CAC. So you get water, gas, and oil.
I still don't think the catch can does anything other than increase the headroom by removing the PCV stuff from the equation. So if it takes you 1 hour to get enough water to cause issue now it may take 1.5 or 2 because you have removed the PCV stuff. But you have a great marketing team in those catch can folks. When the most heavily promoted has only been making them for a few months and the issue seems to be mainly concentrated in the spring/summer. And even then only to certain trucks.
Doesn't surprise me that you got fluid that smelled like gas and oil. All cars recirculate the PCV gasses back to the intake. Pop a PCV line off any car and you will smell oil and gas. I know I can on the wife's Escape. Problem is that the water gets in and it pools in the CAC. So you get water, gas, and oil.
I still don't think the catch can does anything other than increase the headroom by removing the PCV stuff from the equation. So if it takes you 1 hour to get enough water to cause issue now it may take 1.5 or 2 because you have removed the PCV stuff. But you have a great marketing team in those catch can folks. When the most heavily promoted has only been making them for a few months and the issue seems to be mainly concentrated in the spring/summer. And even then only to certain trucks.
I am also curious as to why you think a catch can does absolutely nothing but give more headroom? I mean even if say these contaminants are not causing issues now or in your vehicle but do in others and possibly could wouldnt you want to do something to help? Say even if it helped only 50%? And I think a catch can will help more than 50% IMHO.
Just want to make it clear I am just asking. I didnt read the whole thread but i got the jist of it.
04-07-2014, 12:56 PM
#110
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I am also curious as to why you think a catch can does absolutely nothing but give more headroom? I mean even if say these contaminants are not causing issues now or in your vehicle but do in others and possibly could wouldnt you want to do something to help? Say even if it helped only 50%? And I think a catch can will help more than 50% IMHO.
A can may help in certain limited circumstances but IMHO you don't need one for the Ecoboost. They do help in other applications though, especially VW/Audi and BMW. The Ecoboost doesn't have deposits on a level near what has been seen with those engines.
