?? about SSI tunes
04-09-2014, 10:42 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
?? about SSI tunes
Guys,
Question for you about the SSI tunes. Now I am in no way trolling or trying to start anything here, just on a fact finding mission.
I am currently running the 87oct. T4 tune in my 2012 eco. I have expressed my feelings about the difficulties I've had with Shawns customer service, having said that, He still puts out a damn good tune. End Disclaimer
Now my question....have any of you guys ever heard that Shawn "scales" the amount of knock retard to make it look like it's less when we look at the logs ??? I called MPT to order a 93 oct tune with race trans tune and talked to a guy there about what I had and what tune I was currently running. I told him that I data logged my current SSI 87 tune and that I am only seeing about 3 degrees of knock retard and that's when he told me that he scales them so it looks much safer than it really is meaning that a KR of 3 degrees could really be 6 or 8 or whatever he sets this scale to. Sounds fishy to me but this guy also told me that they have seen "quite a few" SSI tuned trucks with "blown motors" due to this tactic.
I know a good amount about data logging since my job involves gathering engine data like this just about every day. What I don't know much about is whether this is possible to do in our trucks.
Now like I said, I don't want to start a debate about MPT or SSI or any of that crap, and I especially don't want to sound like I am throwing MPT under the bus. I am only asking if you guys have heard of this or if it is possible to do it
Question for you about the SSI tunes. Now I am in no way trolling or trying to start anything here, just on a fact finding mission.
I am currently running the 87oct. T4 tune in my 2012 eco. I have expressed my feelings about the difficulties I've had with Shawns customer service, having said that, He still puts out a damn good tune. End Disclaimer
Now my question....have any of you guys ever heard that Shawn "scales" the amount of knock retard to make it look like it's less when we look at the logs ??? I called MPT to order a 93 oct tune with race trans tune and talked to a guy there about what I had and what tune I was currently running. I told him that I data logged my current SSI 87 tune and that I am only seeing about 3 degrees of knock retard and that's when he told me that he scales them so it looks much safer than it really is meaning that a KR of 3 degrees could really be 6 or 8 or whatever he sets this scale to. Sounds fishy to me but this guy also told me that they have seen "quite a few" SSI tuned trucks with "blown motors" due to this tactic.
I know a good amount about data logging since my job involves gathering engine data like this just about every day. What I don't know much about is whether this is possible to do in our trucks.
Now like I said, I don't want to start a debate about MPT or SSI or any of that crap, and I especially don't want to sound like I am throwing MPT under the bus. I am only asking if you guys have heard of this or if it is possible to do it
04-10-2014, 08:08 AM
#3
Senior Member/Vietnam Vet
I have been testing some of the current SSI, MPT and SCT tunes. What I see is that the SSI and SCT tunes have almost exactly the same KR (knock retard) characteristics, with numbers from -2.5, adding timing, to +1.2, reducing timing. They both have a narrow window which indicates to me that there is good control of the timing/knock system. This is with the current tunes. I saw -2.5 to +1.5 with T4. With the MPT 87 tunes, I got a swing of -7 to +8 which makes me nervous. Others have reported similar observations.
Each truck and strategy has its own characteristics as some say negative to zero for their MPT tunes.
There are issues with faulty injectors on the Ecoboost with engine blowning stock or tuned. It seems to be a luck of the draw as there are guys racing SSI tuned trucks with 80,000 miles or more, and tuned/stock trucks blowing up while going out for pizza. I have 53K on mine and have been tuned since 8K, but don't race, just the occasional WOT to see how it feels, but I have towed a 9,500 lb fiver for 11,000 of those miles which is much harder on the engine than racing.
Understand that this is what I see with my truck and others have different results. So you should data log each tune or, at least, monitor with Torque Pro or something similar.
Each truck and strategy has its own characteristics as some say negative to zero for their MPT tunes.
There are issues with faulty injectors on the Ecoboost with engine blowning stock or tuned. It seems to be a luck of the draw as there are guys racing SSI tuned trucks with 80,000 miles or more, and tuned/stock trucks blowing up while going out for pizza. I have 53K on mine and have been tuned since 8K, but don't race, just the occasional WOT to see how it feels, but I have towed a 9,500 lb fiver for 11,000 of those miles which is much harder on the engine than racing.
Understand that this is what I see with my truck and others have different results. So you should data log each tune or, at least, monitor with Torque Pro or something similar.
Last edited by SkiSmuggs; 04-10-2014 at 08:12 AM.
04-10-2014, 08:22 AM
#4
04-10-2014, 08:47 AM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Well I was torn about weather to put that in the post or not but I figured it was a necessary part of the story if I wanted to be honest and tell the whole story. I have NO animosity toward them or anything I just really want to find out if that's accurate.
Last edited by racered12; 04-10-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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04-10-2014, 11:36 AM
#8
Member
If you have an SSI tune, have you logged it?
Have you seen this "limiting"? I never have on any of my T4 tunes.
Just to be clear many thing can be done to knock sensors. I'm not speaking ecoboost specific, but I have had cars in the past where the calibrator even changed the sensitivity of the knock sensors. Maybe they can also be scaled differently, which would make the comparison pointless.
Don't the sensors vary between MY Ecoboosts?
If you have specific questions your best bet would be to discuss things with your tuner.
It just isn't logical to think SSI would limit knock sensors to blow up engines. Many have ran these tunes for thousands, if not, tens of thousands of miles with no issues.
Could a aggressive tune contribute to blown motors, sure, but let's not forget completely stock motors have issues...so more boost, aggressive timing and power will only expose flaws sooner rather than later. We haven't even discussed proper maintenance, up keep, proper warm-up time, or the fact that some people beat the **** out of their truck because they think it is a race car and are out street racing minivans from stop light to stop light.
Have you seen this "limiting"? I never have on any of my T4 tunes.
Just to be clear many thing can be done to knock sensors. I'm not speaking ecoboost specific, but I have had cars in the past where the calibrator even changed the sensitivity of the knock sensors. Maybe they can also be scaled differently, which would make the comparison pointless.
Don't the sensors vary between MY Ecoboosts?
If you have specific questions your best bet would be to discuss things with your tuner.
It just isn't logical to think SSI would limit knock sensors to blow up engines. Many have ran these tunes for thousands, if not, tens of thousands of miles with no issues.
Could a aggressive tune contribute to blown motors, sure, but let's not forget completely stock motors have issues...so more boost, aggressive timing and power will only expose flaws sooner rather than later. We haven't even discussed proper maintenance, up keep, proper warm-up time, or the fact that some people beat the **** out of their truck because they think it is a race car and are out street racing minivans from stop light to stop light.
The following 2 users liked this post by Dickfish:
brucesears (04-14-2014),
SkiSmuggs (04-10-2014)
04-10-2014, 11:53 AM
#9
Many have posted that their SSI tunes show 2.99 knock. Anybody that has taken stats would question the probability that several customers produced the same knock to the hundredths place. Whatever the case, SSI tunes are strong and if the customer is happy and comfortable that's all that matters. If you're not then buy elsewhere.
The following 3 users liked this post by Joewee3.5:
04-10-2014, 01:11 PM
#10
Member
Many have posted that their SSI tunes show 2.99 knock. Anybody that has taken stats would question the probability that several customers produced the same knock to the hundredths place. Whatever the case, SSI tunes are strong and if the customer is happy and comfortable that's all that matters. If you're not then buy elsewhere.
This is why I'm asking the OP if he has personally seen this? If not it would be worrying for nothing. I'll say that any tuner should be putting out a pretty safe base file, but there is still a great deal of owner responsibility when it comes to logging. All companies have issues and go through revisions, every strategy can react different. Basically there isn't a right or wrong answer and like you said if you are happy, great..if not, go else where with your business.
