New to tuners / programmers, tons of questions!
06-03-2013, 10:53 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New to tuners / programmers, tons of questions!
I've been reading the forums here for a while whenever I have an issue with my truck but never posted before. Great info all around, some very knowledgeable folks here! I have a 2004 4X4 with the 5.4, and love the s*%* out of it, thinking about making some mods I've wanted to do for a while. Not new to engines, trucks, or cars, but never really worked on a motor w/ a computer, I'm kinda old school I guess. So never used a programmer / tuner. I definitely want to get the right one, considering the cost of these things. I understand basically what a tuner does, but still have ton of questions. Thanks a ton in advance, sorry for being new at this. Also if I've missed a related thread or link, forgive me, post a link and Ill have a look.
Can tunes be changed on the fly? For example, if I want to travel across the country one day and pull a trailer the next, can I simply "swap" tunes easily to get great mileage one day and say, different shift points the next?
If I buy a tuner, can it be used on any modern vehicle? I'm buying it for my truck, but with some new software to the tuner, could I just plug it into a chevy and give it a tune as well?
Is the tuner something I'll keep in the truck at all times, or can I plug it, load it, and leave it?
It seems obvious to me that only a custom tune will reap all the benefits from all of the mods I have already done and want to do. How easy is a custom tune to "make"? Is it something I could do on the programmer, or must it be designed by a technician?
I looked at an SCT tuner, it said that it can hold 3 custom tunes, is this a trait of all tuners, or do some only hold canned tunes?
Is there any danger in severely messing things up with a programmer? Is there always an option to revert to something that I know will work at least as good as factory?
Is a tuner also able to read any error codes in the vehicle, and interpret them, or is that a different tool entirely? Will tuners tell me if I have any sensors malfunctioning?
Eventually, once my tranny goes out or needs replacing, I'd really like to find a manual one, instead of automatic. At this point, would a tuner still be useful in controlling the engine, or would such a swap cause a computer meltdown that would render the entire vehicle useless?
Thanks again in advance, its a lot of questions, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, and I wanna do it the right way!
Can tunes be changed on the fly? For example, if I want to travel across the country one day and pull a trailer the next, can I simply "swap" tunes easily to get great mileage one day and say, different shift points the next?
If I buy a tuner, can it be used on any modern vehicle? I'm buying it for my truck, but with some new software to the tuner, could I just plug it into a chevy and give it a tune as well?
Is the tuner something I'll keep in the truck at all times, or can I plug it, load it, and leave it?
It seems obvious to me that only a custom tune will reap all the benefits from all of the mods I have already done and want to do. How easy is a custom tune to "make"? Is it something I could do on the programmer, or must it be designed by a technician?
I looked at an SCT tuner, it said that it can hold 3 custom tunes, is this a trait of all tuners, or do some only hold canned tunes?
Is there any danger in severely messing things up with a programmer? Is there always an option to revert to something that I know will work at least as good as factory?
Is a tuner also able to read any error codes in the vehicle, and interpret them, or is that a different tool entirely? Will tuners tell me if I have any sensors malfunctioning?
Eventually, once my tranny goes out or needs replacing, I'd really like to find a manual one, instead of automatic. At this point, would a tuner still be useful in controlling the engine, or would such a swap cause a computer meltdown that would render the entire vehicle useless?
Thanks again in advance, its a lot of questions, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, and I wanna do it the right way!
06-14-2013, 01:22 AM
#2
Senior Member
Truly excellent questions and no idea why there aren't a pile of responses. I'm relatively new to programmers, but here are a couple of answers. Hope others can fill in the blanks as this topic would have been of value to me as well.
Can tunes be changed on the fly? For example, if I want to travel across the country one day and pull a trailer the next, can I simply "swap" tunes easily to get great mileage one day and say, different shift points the next?
Yes and no. A complete tune load requires a re-flash of the ECM and is a series of "turn key on, push button, turn key off, push button...." All told, maybe 5 minutes to swap from towing tune to performance tune. Other parameters, like shift points, can be changed on the fly (well, best to do it while parked!).
Is the tuner something I'll keep in the truck at all times, or can I plug it, load it, and leave it?
Most are designed to load and disconnect but it seems the most popular systems provide monitoring features that make them desirable as a permanent fixture. The Edge (the one I own) has a mileage coach that not only helps you feather the throttle, but can even calculate the fuel cost of your trip (not for the faint of heart.)
Is a tuner also able to read any error codes in the vehicle, and interpret them, or is that a different tool entirely? Will tuners tell me if I have any sensors malfunctioning?
I had a rough start yesterday morning and shortly after, noticed the check engine light on. Pulled over, checked the programmer, and it specified an emissions control leak, under .02 inches. Cleared this obviously non-critical problem through the programmer menu and continued on my way. Hasn't reoccurred. I guess the point is that yes, the programmer can read, define. and clear log codes, but what you do with that information is up to you.
Is there any danger in severely messing things up with a programmer? Is there always an option to revert to something that I know will work at least as good as factory?
YES! You can ruin your engine by messing with stuff you don't understand! To paraphrase MythBusters "Don't try anything you are about to see. We're professionals." That said, the canned or custom tunes are completely safe and mine even made a backup of my factory setting before the re-flash. It came with a state certificate saying that the tune complied with emissions laws. Once you understand what you're doing, the possibilities are endless and awesome.
Hope this helps.
Can tunes be changed on the fly? For example, if I want to travel across the country one day and pull a trailer the next, can I simply "swap" tunes easily to get great mileage one day and say, different shift points the next?
Yes and no. A complete tune load requires a re-flash of the ECM and is a series of "turn key on, push button, turn key off, push button...." All told, maybe 5 minutes to swap from towing tune to performance tune. Other parameters, like shift points, can be changed on the fly (well, best to do it while parked!).
Is the tuner something I'll keep in the truck at all times, or can I plug it, load it, and leave it?
Most are designed to load and disconnect but it seems the most popular systems provide monitoring features that make them desirable as a permanent fixture. The Edge (the one I own) has a mileage coach that not only helps you feather the throttle, but can even calculate the fuel cost of your trip (not for the faint of heart.)
Is a tuner also able to read any error codes in the vehicle, and interpret them, or is that a different tool entirely? Will tuners tell me if I have any sensors malfunctioning?
I had a rough start yesterday morning and shortly after, noticed the check engine light on. Pulled over, checked the programmer, and it specified an emissions control leak, under .02 inches. Cleared this obviously non-critical problem through the programmer menu and continued on my way. Hasn't reoccurred. I guess the point is that yes, the programmer can read, define. and clear log codes, but what you do with that information is up to you.
Is there any danger in severely messing things up with a programmer? Is there always an option to revert to something that I know will work at least as good as factory?
YES! You can ruin your engine by messing with stuff you don't understand! To paraphrase MythBusters "Don't try anything you are about to see. We're professionals." That said, the canned or custom tunes are completely safe and mine even made a backup of my factory setting before the re-flash. It came with a state certificate saying that the tune complied with emissions laws. Once you understand what you're doing, the possibilities are endless and awesome.
Hope this helps.
The following users liked this post:
jimhuntphoto (07-02-2013)
06-24-2013, 12:37 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Mechanik, for the reply and the encouragement. I thought I had decent questions, and was wondering why I wasn't getting many replies, haha. It seems like a tuner designed to stay in the truck that gives real time updates on different stats would be optimal.
Also great news that tuners can read the error codes, and tell you what is going on. It would be great to have that info at hand any time a light goes off, etc.
I guess loading a complete custom or canned tune would be the equivalent of re-formatting a hard drive, or putting a new OS on your computer. I didn't really understand that it was that extensive, but it makes sense to do it that way on such a simple computer, like the ones in cars/trucks.
Still wondering how much flexibility I will have with a tuner, can the same tuner be used on multiple vehicles (not at the same time of course)? I guess I just don't understand whats happening on the software side of the tuner as well, if it is designed for one engine/vehicle, or can be loaded up with different software to work with other vehicles.
Also great news that tuners can read the error codes, and tell you what is going on. It would be great to have that info at hand any time a light goes off, etc.
I guess loading a complete custom or canned tune would be the equivalent of re-formatting a hard drive, or putting a new OS on your computer. I didn't really understand that it was that extensive, but it makes sense to do it that way on such a simple computer, like the ones in cars/trucks.
Still wondering how much flexibility I will have with a tuner, can the same tuner be used on multiple vehicles (not at the same time of course)? I guess I just don't understand whats happening on the software side of the tuner as well, if it is designed for one engine/vehicle, or can be loaded up with different software to work with other vehicles.
06-24-2013, 01:03 PM
#4
I cant speak to all brands of tuners but I can tell you some info on SCT units.
1) SCT cannot change tunes on the fly as the truck has to be off to program it. First time you tune takes about 10-15 mins and swapping tunes only takes about 3-4 mins usually
2) Way that most tuners work is once you use it to tune a vehicle, it becomes VIN locked to that vehicle. You can unlock it by restoring the OEM Ford tune back to the car ( which the SCT unit will autosave the first time its used ) and once the OEM tune is back on the original vehicle, you can then use the tuner on another vehicle and that can be done up to a max of 5 times swapping vehicles. So the tuner will work on up to 5 swaps, but only one vehicle at a time if that makes sense. And while the tuner is vin locked to the one vehicle, you can change the tunes on that same vehicle as much as you want.
3) Which model you buy is depending on if needs left plugged in or not. The SF3 3015 ( by far the most popular one ) just plugs into the OBII port, upload your tune and unplug til need it again. The Livewire TS #5015 or ITSX 4015 would stay plugged into the OBII port but not for tuning wise, for the real time guages they run
1) SCT cannot change tunes on the fly as the truck has to be off to program it. First time you tune takes about 10-15 mins and swapping tunes only takes about 3-4 mins usually
2) Way that most tuners work is once you use it to tune a vehicle, it becomes VIN locked to that vehicle. You can unlock it by restoring the OEM Ford tune back to the car ( which the SCT unit will autosave the first time its used ) and once the OEM tune is back on the original vehicle, you can then use the tuner on another vehicle and that can be done up to a max of 5 times swapping vehicles. So the tuner will work on up to 5 swaps, but only one vehicle at a time if that makes sense. And while the tuner is vin locked to the one vehicle, you can change the tunes on that same vehicle as much as you want.
3) Which model you buy is depending on if needs left plugged in or not. The SF3 3015 ( by far the most popular one ) just plugs into the OBII port, upload your tune and unplug til need it again. The Livewire TS #5015 or ITSX 4015 would stay plugged into the OBII port but not for tuning wise, for the real time guages they run
06-27-2013, 08:48 PM
#5
Senior Member
Following up on your last post, eman245, about flexibility. I'm sure you can find something that will let you flash any vehicle that you want, but I bet they're VERY expensive. The ones we typically buy are specific to a make and engine. They also ask for model and trim package when you buy it, which may speak to differences in ECM programming between engine or accessory options sometimes offered with trim packages. I don't know what those might be, though, so this is just a guess.
Also, you can unplug the Edge, and I assume others, too. Once the memory is flashed, the programming stays.
Franchi has a great point on re-using a consumer product like SCT or Edge. From what I understand, your tuner/programmer actually re-flashes the memory area of the ECM, like your analogy of the hard drive. That's why the device makes a copy of the current memory/config prior to loading up new one. I'm not aware of VIN or re-use restrictions on the Edge, they may be there, I just don't know. The VIN restriction makes sense, though, to keep you from screwing up. Imagine if you took a backup of your ECM memory, flashed in a new tune, then un plugged and re-plugged into your buddy's truck. I can imagine screwing up his tune and losing your factory settings if the device wasn't smart enough to tell the difference between trucks. For an analogy, think about reformatting your Windows boot sector for Linux!
I guess my point is that if you want to custom tune multiple vehicles, you need to buy pro equipment.
Also, you can unplug the Edge, and I assume others, too. Once the memory is flashed, the programming stays.
Franchi has a great point on re-using a consumer product like SCT or Edge. From what I understand, your tuner/programmer actually re-flashes the memory area of the ECM, like your analogy of the hard drive. That's why the device makes a copy of the current memory/config prior to loading up new one. I'm not aware of VIN or re-use restrictions on the Edge, they may be there, I just don't know. The VIN restriction makes sense, though, to keep you from screwing up. Imagine if you took a backup of your ECM memory, flashed in a new tune, then un plugged and re-plugged into your buddy's truck. I can imagine screwing up his tune and losing your factory settings if the device wasn't smart enough to tell the difference between trucks. For an analogy, think about reformatting your Windows boot sector for Linux!
I guess my point is that if you want to custom tune multiple vehicles, you need to buy pro equipment.
06-29-2013, 10:25 PM
#7
yes and no. Most people will reflash their ecm if going to the shop...
If you are not able to do this for some reason the shop has to prove that the tune is what caused the problem. I was a service writer at a GM dealership and luckily we did not push the issue unless it was 100 percent apparent that a programmer caused the problem... but understand that a lot of shops are not like that..
Trending Topics
06-30-2013, 11:12 PM
#8
yes and no. Most people will reflash their ecm if going to the shop...
If you are not able to do this for some reason the shop has to prove that the tune is what caused the problem. I was a service writer at a GM dealership and luckily we did not push the issue unless it was 100 percent apparent that a programmer caused the problem... but understand that a lot of shops are not like that..
If you are not able to do this for some reason the shop has to prove that the tune is what caused the problem. I was a service writer at a GM dealership and luckily we did not push the issue unless it was 100 percent apparent that a programmer caused the problem... but understand that a lot of shops are not like that..
07-01-2013, 10:50 PM
#9
