'03 F150 5.4L running very rough
08-07-2017, 10:33 AM
#21
Here's an update:
Finally dislodged the foreign object that was in the hole of plug #3. Between spraying Brake cleaner, working it around with a strong pick, sucking with a shopvac, and blowing it out with air we managed to get it out. We saw something come flying up out of the hole with the last blast of air, but never saw clearly what it was or where it landed. After that the plug came out no problem.
Finished the passenger side and #5 &6 on the driver's side without any issues at all.
#7 & 8 on the other hand are something else.
Because I could not get the seized COP bolt out of #7 we moved back to #8. After re-taping the socket and extensions together I slid it down into the hole and tried turning it a little to make sure I had the socket all the way down onto the plug. To my surprise I removed that plug entirely by hand! Never put the ratchet on it. Also discovered that it was not a match to the other plugs. The threads are at least 10 mm longer. Maybe even a half inch. Was concerned that it may have damaged the piston, but after looking closely at the ground arm at the bottom of the plug, I can see it is untouched, or damaged so I'm sure the piston is fine.
Started the new plug and it will only go 3 turns until it locks up. I don't dare force it and damage the aluminum threads in the head, but I'm totally confused by the fact that I removed the previous plug by hand so easily.
I also shoved the shopvac hose down there and sucked it out just to make sure no debris or sand had fallen down into the threads. Made no difference.
Just in case it was a bad thread on the new plug I tried another new plug and it did the same thing. three turns and locks up.
Today I will carefully run a plug thread chaser in there and then try a plug again.
On #7 we finally got the bolt started out after my buddy found he had a smaller 1/4" ratchet than mine, but then had to switch to a wrench when the ratchet ran up against the vacuum valve on the fuel rail. So far I have been able to do everything without having to remove the fuel rails or injectors. Trying to keep it intact if possible.
It was getting dark at that point so we called it a night.
Hopefully when I am done with work tonight the rain will have stopped.
Rick
Finally dislodged the foreign object that was in the hole of plug #3. Between spraying Brake cleaner, working it around with a strong pick, sucking with a shopvac, and blowing it out with air we managed to get it out. We saw something come flying up out of the hole with the last blast of air, but never saw clearly what it was or where it landed. After that the plug came out no problem.
Finished the passenger side and #5 &6 on the driver's side without any issues at all.
#7 & 8 on the other hand are something else.
Because I could not get the seized COP bolt out of #7 we moved back to #8. After re-taping the socket and extensions together I slid it down into the hole and tried turning it a little to make sure I had the socket all the way down onto the plug. To my surprise I removed that plug entirely by hand! Never put the ratchet on it. Also discovered that it was not a match to the other plugs. The threads are at least 10 mm longer. Maybe even a half inch. Was concerned that it may have damaged the piston, but after looking closely at the ground arm at the bottom of the plug, I can see it is untouched, or damaged so I'm sure the piston is fine.
Started the new plug and it will only go 3 turns until it locks up. I don't dare force it and damage the aluminum threads in the head, but I'm totally confused by the fact that I removed the previous plug by hand so easily.
I also shoved the shopvac hose down there and sucked it out just to make sure no debris or sand had fallen down into the threads. Made no difference.
Just in case it was a bad thread on the new plug I tried another new plug and it did the same thing. three turns and locks up.
Today I will carefully run a plug thread chaser in there and then try a plug again.
On #7 we finally got the bolt started out after my buddy found he had a smaller 1/4" ratchet than mine, but then had to switch to a wrench when the ratchet ran up against the vacuum valve on the fuel rail. So far I have been able to do everything without having to remove the fuel rails or injectors. Trying to keep it intact if possible.
It was getting dark at that point so we called it a night.
Hopefully when I am done with work tonight the rain will have stopped.
Rick
Last edited by Rick Olson; 08-07-2017 at 10:37 AM.
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Rick Olson (08-07-2017)
08-07-2017, 05:13 PM
#23
I have known that about the new torque specs for a while now. My oldest son's Father-In-Law is a small town Ford dealer, and my Dad has had 2 of the F250's on our farm with the 5.4L as well. Thanks for the reminder.
The rain seems to be done and the sun is back out. Going to have a little supper and get these last two cylinders done tonight.
C ya.
Rick
The rain seems to be done and the sun is back out. Going to have a little supper and get these last two cylinders done tonight.
C ya.
Rick
08-08-2017, 11:16 AM
#24
I also had debris in one of my SP wells. others have started threads with their own blockages. So weird so many people have that same strange problem with a mostly sealed hole.
I would hold onto that long spark plug you pulled out.verify with a thread checker that it is the same as your replacements. I know you got it out by hand, did it also only have a couple of turns? Worse case scenerio is you COULD order another one of those ling plugs and see if that screws down in there. Not what you are SUPPOSED to do of course, but hey, you do what you gotta do.
Good luck to you. I think you're on the right path the the plugs and coils. Your symptoms are exactly what what I had and the new plugs and coils fixed me.
I would hold onto that long spark plug you pulled out.verify with a thread checker that it is the same as your replacements. I know you got it out by hand, did it also only have a couple of turns? Worse case scenerio is you COULD order another one of those ling plugs and see if that screws down in there. Not what you are SUPPOSED to do of course, but hey, you do what you gotta do.
Good luck to you. I think you're on the right path the the plugs and coils. Your symptoms are exactly what what I had and the new plugs and coils fixed me.
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Rick Olson (08-08-2017)
08-08-2017, 12:33 PM
#25
Finally removed the little bolt that holds down the COP on #7. It was indeed cross-threaded by the PO.
Then I removed the SP and discovered that it had been stripped and supposedly repaired. I say "supposedly" because the thread repair coil came out with the SP. It did not stay fastened into the head. Whoever did it did not use the proper thread locker on it. It had some orange rubbery silicone stuff around it and came right out.
I couldn't make this stuff up.
Anyway, I bought some new thread repair inserts, red gel type heavy duty thread locker for the SP, and a 5mm x .80 tap to repair the damaged COP bolt hole on #7.
Can't wait for my borescope to get here. I want to see down into the thread portion of #8 to see what is wrong with the threads there. I watched several videos on Youtube last night on how to do this repair. On one of them, the repair guy warned about not running the thread repair insert too far into the head and demonstrated it on a head on a bench so you could see it. I suspect that may be what is wrong with #8 and why the correct plug only catches two threads and is bottomed out, and they replaced it with an Autolite APP5364 which has much longer threads that I mentioned previously. Hmmmm. Borescope has shipped and is due to arrive in the next couple days. Will keep you posted.
Rick
Then I removed the SP and discovered that it had been stripped and supposedly repaired. I say "supposedly" because the thread repair coil came out with the SP. It did not stay fastened into the head. Whoever did it did not use the proper thread locker on it. It had some orange rubbery silicone stuff around it and came right out.
I couldn't make this stuff up.
Anyway, I bought some new thread repair inserts, red gel type heavy duty thread locker for the SP, and a 5mm x .80 tap to repair the damaged COP bolt hole on #7.
Can't wait for my borescope to get here. I want to see down into the thread portion of #8 to see what is wrong with the threads there. I watched several videos on Youtube last night on how to do this repair. On one of them, the repair guy warned about not running the thread repair insert too far into the head and demonstrated it on a head on a bench so you could see it. I suspect that may be what is wrong with #8 and why the correct plug only catches two threads and is bottomed out, and they replaced it with an Autolite APP5364 which has much longer threads that I mentioned previously. Hmmmm. Borescope has shipped and is due to arrive in the next couple days. Will keep you posted.
Rick
08-08-2017, 12:48 PM
#26
Good idea on the borescope. I had to use one to figure out/get out the debris in my SP well.
Sounds like you have a real mess on your hands, and on #8 no less. You're a hell of a guy to tackle that yourself. Best of luck to you!
Sounds like you have a real mess on your hands, and on #8 no less. You're a hell of a guy to tackle that yourself. Best of luck to you!
08-08-2017, 01:28 PM
#27
Now an XLT in Colorado
I bought one for use with my Android phone. It's already been useful in tracking down a coolant leak (ended up being the water pump).
Sounds like you're knee-deep in it, but wallowing out slowly.
.
08-14-2017, 07:48 PM
#28
Alright Everybody,
Here's the latest. After installing thread repair inserts in SP holes #7 & #8, I finished buttoning everything up tonight. Long story short: still runs the same as before I touched it.
And still no DTC's. and no SEL. Runs like crap and smokes blue smoke like crazy at first. I let it run for a couple minutes to make sure I had burned out any brake cleaner/ carb cleaner used in cleaning out the SP holes etc. After a couple minutes I was able to leave my foot off the pedal and it stayed running at barely 600 rpms and shaking like crazy.
I walked around it and saw smoke coming from behind the right front tire. looked in there with a flashlight and can see a lot of oil on the exhaust manifold, near cylinders #3 & #4. I can't see for sure but I think it's coming from the rocker arm cover. It then stalled and I saw blue smoke come up through the intake and out the throttle body. I'm not sure at all where that is coming from.
My thought at this time is that this engine needs to come out asap and either buy a donor truck that runs and is all rusted out and swap that one into this truck, or rebuild this one. Any thoughts?
Rick Olson
Here's the latest. After installing thread repair inserts in SP holes #7 & #8, I finished buttoning everything up tonight. Long story short: still runs the same as before I touched it.
And still no DTC's. and no SEL. Runs like crap and smokes blue smoke like crazy at first. I let it run for a couple minutes to make sure I had burned out any brake cleaner/ carb cleaner used in cleaning out the SP holes etc. After a couple minutes I was able to leave my foot off the pedal and it stayed running at barely 600 rpms and shaking like crazy.I walked around it and saw smoke coming from behind the right front tire. looked in there with a flashlight and can see a lot of oil on the exhaust manifold, near cylinders #3 & #4. I can't see for sure but I think it's coming from the rocker arm cover. It then stalled and I saw blue smoke come up through the intake and out the throttle body. I'm not sure at all where that is coming from.
My thought at this time is that this engine needs to come out asap and either buy a donor truck that runs and is all rusted out and swap that one into this truck, or rebuild this one. Any thoughts?
Rick Olson
08-14-2017, 09:44 PM
#29
Senior Member
08-15-2017, 11:18 AM
#30
Holy crap Rick, that's terrible. While i would say regardless how 'bad' ac delco COPs are, they should work fine for at least a little while, (after all I put 8 cheap COPS in that cost me $33 total and my truck runs fine) but jbrew knows these trucks better than I know myself.
That being said, I have some vaguely useful information.
Another guy had a similar problem. I started the you-need-SPs-and-COPs bandwagon. It didn't fix his issue either. and he was also getting oil down the exhaust. But heres the worst part... I don't remember the fix. I'll try to find it and post back here.
That being said, I have some vaguely useful information.
Another guy had a similar problem. I started the you-need-SPs-and-COPs bandwagon. It didn't fix his issue either. and he was also getting oil down the exhaust. But heres the worst part... I don't remember the fix. I'll try to find it and post back here.