Tensioners and Guides, Without Chain
04-20-2017, 06:14 AM
#11
Mark
iTrader: (1)
Hey Stephen. I've used Mobil 1 filters and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, changing them at 3,000 mile intervals, since I've owned this vehicle. The previous owner used Motorcraft filters and semi-synthetic oil, changing them at 5,000 mile intervals. I'm aware that there's some controversy about the anti-drainback valve, particularly in lower quality filters. I'm not too familiar with the details. Thank you for bringing the oil pan and pickup tube to my attention. I will make sure to clean the oil pan, and I'm leaning towards replacing the pump and pickup tube anyway. Essentially, it all seems very complicated, but I'm thankful for the folks on this forum.
04-20-2017, 10:30 AM
#12
LightningRod
...
Getting timing cover off is the most difficult part of this job . Yes the whole timing job parts run around $1400. Timing chains do stretch and can get to the point tensioner can't keep up . Once you see broken guides you have to pull oil pan to get pieces out .
The timing chain is long and has 122 links, wear of only a few thousands on each joint can quickly add up to a half inch or more . It is going to be difficult to check timing with them on as you can't see the links or cam lobes on 1 and 5 .
The original colored links will be almost impossible to discern ...
Getting timing cover off is the most difficult part of this job . Yes the whole timing job parts run around $1400. Timing chains do stretch and can get to the point tensioner can't keep up . Once you see broken guides you have to pull oil pan to get pieces out .
The timing chain is long and has 122 links, wear of only a few thousands on each joint can quickly add up to a half inch or more . It is going to be difficult to check timing with them on as you can't see the links or cam lobes on 1 and 5 .
The original colored links will be almost impossible to discern ...
^^^^^^ perfect testament as to why NOT doing a timing job without replacing chains.
I'm going to join in urging the OP to do it RIGHT - all at once, only once, the first time.
Good luck
04-20-2017, 12:19 PM
#13
At the urging of members of this forum, I've decided to replace the chains, too. As Redfish pointed out, the replacement of the oil pump requires the removal of the timing chains, so there's no point in not replacing them, and I would like to thank him for bringing that to my attention. The timing process is somewhat intimidating to me.
To respond to Techrep's question, it's true that I practice 3,000 mile oil change intervals with a synthetic oil. Such a practice is obviously controversial, but it is grounded in my personal experiences, just like we've all had. To give an example, the person that owned this vehicle before I did practiced 5,000 mile intervals with semi-synthetic oil, as verified in the provided maintenance records. The science says that should be okay, especially with an oil like Motorcraft semi-synthetic. But, this engine has had problems with sludge and oil consumption. Fortunately, the problems have been fixed, but I'm confident that they wouldn't have existed to begin with, if the previous owner had used a fully-synthetic oil and changed it on a more regular basis. I could be entirely wrong, but I believe that shorter OCIs with synthetic oil have the potential to save people a lot of trouble.
To respond to Techrep's question, it's true that I practice 3,000 mile oil change intervals with a synthetic oil. Such a practice is obviously controversial, but it is grounded in my personal experiences, just like we've all had. To give an example, the person that owned this vehicle before I did practiced 5,000 mile intervals with semi-synthetic oil, as verified in the provided maintenance records. The science says that should be okay, especially with an oil like Motorcraft semi-synthetic. But, this engine has had problems with sludge and oil consumption. Fortunately, the problems have been fixed, but I'm confident that they wouldn't have existed to begin with, if the previous owner had used a fully-synthetic oil and changed it on a more regular basis. I could be entirely wrong, but I believe that shorter OCIs with synthetic oil have the potential to save people a lot of trouble.
04-20-2017, 10:28 PM
#14
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
Ask and study the procedure its not that bad
Svares final fix sticky , ford tech malukoco on youtube is great . You just have to understand there are several different ways to do this job .
You will have to get the timing in your head and your knowledge will take big steps . We can shoot you a lot of pictures and the manual then you can pick your way as you go .
For instance he uses valve removal tool to take certain valves out of service . Its a $200 dollar tool ,I don't need it I just lift cams then none of the valves are down . The only tool I liked was the toothed phasor holding tool . When to get to pulling the crank pulley there are several options , I made my own tool to hold it . Most other stuff you can lend a tool at autozone .
Make yourself some hand drawings as you go . Keep bolts with pulleys with duct tape .
As far as oil is concerned it is the combustion carbon dirt that clogs this engine it makes no difference if its still slippery . This hydraulic circuit that drives phasors will not tolerate dirt, too many screens and small passages . But I am not a fan of cheap oils building sludge ,I use full syn and dump before 5k . Use mc filters to reduce drain back before starting, that way tensioners will pump up faster . I know its not cheap , my engine at 140k just had varnish no sludge . Even tho I used cheap filters then . No offence to those who chose different .
You will have to get the timing in your head and your knowledge will take big steps . We can shoot you a lot of pictures and the manual then you can pick your way as you go .
For instance he uses valve removal tool to take certain valves out of service . Its a $200 dollar tool ,I don't need it I just lift cams then none of the valves are down . The only tool I liked was the toothed phasor holding tool . When to get to pulling the crank pulley there are several options , I made my own tool to hold it . Most other stuff you can lend a tool at autozone .
Make yourself some hand drawings as you go . Keep bolts with pulleys with duct tape .
As far as oil is concerned it is the combustion carbon dirt that clogs this engine it makes no difference if its still slippery . This hydraulic circuit that drives phasors will not tolerate dirt, too many screens and small passages . But I am not a fan of cheap oils building sludge ,I use full syn and dump before 5k . Use mc filters to reduce drain back before starting, that way tensioners will pump up faster . I know its not cheap , my engine at 140k just had varnish no sludge . Even tho I used cheap filters then . No offence to those who chose different .
Last edited by redfishtd; 04-20-2017 at 10:42 PM. Reason: add oil comment
04-22-2017, 12:24 PM
#15
Hello. I am preparing to replace timing chain tensioners and guides in my 2006 5.4 3v. I have decided to use the 2v tensioners. Every tutorial I see on the Internet includes removing the valve covers, but it seems it's only to replace the timing chain. I have decided not to replace the chain. Can the tensioners and guides be accessed by only removing the front timing cover? Any other advice?
Thanks
Thanks
" Keep bolts with pulleys with duct tape" Good advice. I put mine in a small ziploc bag and tape it or zip loc it or something to the part.
04-22-2017, 12:55 PM
#16
I want to second (or third) a couple of points.
1. Replace as many things as you can afford to while you are in there. It's many hours to get to the innards and you really don't want to do it twice.
2. You can do this. It will make sense when you finally get the front cover off and see it all. You can do this.
1. Replace as many things as you can afford to while you are in there. It's many hours to get to the innards and you really don't want to do it twice.
2. You can do this. It will make sense when you finally get the front cover off and see it all. You can do this.
04-22-2017, 03:14 PM
#17
LightningRod
Good advice, and I agree with @Island Truck, ---- 'You can to this. It will all make sense when you finally get the front cover off and see it all.'
I cannot find the post to give the author proper credit, but I used his recommended procedure for keeping up with bolts and was VERY glad I did by the time I got finished. Take a large piece of cardboard, draw A large "Y" shaped like the front cover, placing a circle at lower left (for A/C Compressor) and at lower right for P/s Pump. Poke holes in it at all the approximate location where you remove the bolts from and stick the bolt there. Makes the multiple different lengths and size bolts to the front cover a breeze to find on re-assembly.
You can do this!
04-29-2017, 07:22 AM
#18
To update everyone, I'm prepared to start the project within a week or so. As I noted in my original post, I have decided to use the 2v style tensioners. It seems to me that, unlike the 3v style tensioners, the 2v style don't use a gasket because their functionality does not depend on oil pressure. But I'm assuming there are oil inlet and outlet holes under the tensioners, right? Wouldn't I need some sort of gasket or sealant to keep oil from leaking from the tensioner?
Thanks for the advice about the screws. I have a problem not planning the small details, and oftentimes find myself up the creek without a paddle.
Thanks for the advice about the screws. I have a problem not planning the small details, and oftentimes find myself up the creek without a paddle.
04-29-2017, 09:51 AM
#19
LightningRod
Well, you have a bunch of good guys pulling for you and willing to help.
It wouldn't be exactly correct to say the 2v style tensioner's functionality is not dependent on oil pressure. It's just that once oil pressure takes up the slack, their 'ratchet' effect prevents them from collapsing in engine-off zero oil pressure condition.
I used them on my rebuild. The castings have grove passageways that matchup with oil hole in front of engine block. The engine block (as well as the face of the metal tensioners) are machined smooth. Mine did come with thin metal gaskets.
However ??? the hole in the metal gasket did not align with the hole in the block - so I did not use them, and just mounted the tensioner directly to engine block and torqued them appropriately. The tensioner plunger aligned perfectly with the back side of tensioner guide.
I got mine from: A-1 auto, Ebay - Upgrade Cast Iron Ratchet Lower Timing Chain Tensioner
Planning / small details are a good thing. Don't hesitate.
It wouldn't be exactly correct to say the 2v style tensioner's functionality is not dependent on oil pressure. It's just that once oil pressure takes up the slack, their 'ratchet' effect prevents them from collapsing in engine-off zero oil pressure condition.
I used them on my rebuild. The castings have grove passageways that matchup with oil hole in front of engine block. The engine block (as well as the face of the metal tensioners) are machined smooth. Mine did come with thin metal gaskets.
However ??? the hole in the metal gasket did not align with the hole in the block - so I did not use them, and just mounted the tensioner directly to engine block and torqued them appropriately. The tensioner plunger aligned perfectly with the back side of tensioner guide.
I got mine from: A-1 auto, Ebay - Upgrade Cast Iron Ratchet Lower Timing Chain Tensioner
Planning / small details are a good thing. Don't hesitate.
04-30-2017, 08:50 AM
#20
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
Inside timing cover
Advice is to use blue loctite on all bolts except phasor bolts . Blue is removable, avoid any permanent or red stuff .
I don't think you need to worry about a gasket on metal tensioners it has a lot of contact area and a little leak won't hurt anything anyway . Don't use metal plates that come with them as oil holes don't line up with your engine .
I find that the card board y drawing is excellent for organizing bolts etc . I used it to mark tightening sequence and torque values beside bolt . Make it about the same size as the real cover .
I don't think you need to worry about a gasket on metal tensioners it has a lot of contact area and a little leak won't hurt anything anyway . Don't use metal plates that come with them as oil holes don't line up with your engine .
I find that the card board y drawing is excellent for organizing bolts etc . I used it to mark tightening sequence and torque values beside bolt . Make it about the same size as the real cover .