When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Agreed eco builder did a fantastic job of cleaning
I have seen worse but ecobuilders was the one that impressed me with his cleaning . I would use tooth brushes ,kerosene and flush with cheap oil with the pan off and use cheap wally world mc 820 filters . I would have used old style steel tensioners with no gasket to blow out .. You may have to go in and take vcts housings a part to get it out of there after most of the major stuff cleaned ..You may have to re-clean lashs and reprime,re clean vcts . put a stucco pan under it and go to town with tooth brushes .Many cheap oil changes will help maybe use some diesel oil . Clean that pvc baffle out in drivers valve cover with brake cleaner . I would not use gasoline .
That old oil is good for bonfires and tree burning . We use it around fence posts to keep termites off them .
I use wally world motor flush every other oil change and I run I quart marvel m. oil all the time . . My friend lets his flush sit overnight then drains and redoes oil . . I am trying to think why is this thing shutting down ?? Granted it is good since no oil pressure .Make sure you reclean that oil pu screen .
That sludge condition seems common in extreme cold short trips/upper canada etc . You can't go by miles or wait for warm weather to change oil . You get that engine started at 10 degrees f and run it up to 200 degrees in 20 miles or so . That moisture condenses in crankcase over and over again probably clogs pvc circuit at one point not to mention moisture may freeze in there there is a small heater but I'm sure its over loaded easily .Lastly I would change out oil pump for a melling hv ..You can and should lift cams out carefully bolts in sequence , All parts on cam towers /journals must go back exactly how they came out .
I know you balk at in depth cleaning and want to do the min to get it to work but only a good cleanout is going to last. Some of this may not flush until you take it apart like vct housings and cam thrust oil groove .Phasers may be jammed up also .Make sure your cam crank relucter wheel is not badly damaged from plastic and clean the sensors .
Cam bolt torque is approx 7.4 foot pounds --or 89 inch pounds .
Carefully mark all cam caps and lay them out in order and orientation ,cam work is not hard just be precise .Its actually easier than messing with that valve tool .Hand oil all stuff on assembly .
That is pretty bad. If it were mine, heads would be coming off.
When there is that much sludge present, it's everywhere you can't see as well. Oil galleries/journals, VCT housing, valve cover/PCV baffles etc.
No head removal:
With nitrile gloves on, remove as much sludge from heads as is humanly possible. Then uninstall cam caps, cams, and rockers, and remove as much remaining sludge as you can.
With oil pan off and drain container underneath trickle pour some lacquer thinner into the head and use a small brush to scrub and lift as much solids out as you can. Pour some more into the head and let drain down into drain container. If front cover off, wipe as much area as you can with brushes/rags and lacquer thinner. Wipe clean with shop towels.
Use lacquer thinner to soak the VCT housings in and and the valve covers. If reusing the lashes/rockers, soak them too. I kept pouring the thinner through them until it ran clear.
Once you're satisfied, button it back up and begin a few short OCI with PP 5W30 and replace 1 qt with MMO or Motor Medic. Change oil filter each time.
Mine didn't run right until after the third oil change.
Runs better than new 14000 kms/8700 miles later. Couldn't be happier.
Bear in mind I changed out the lashes/rockers, oil pump, full timing set incl phasers etc.
This drainback comment ? How do you know it won't drain back with out a filter in
The mc 820 filter is preferred because it has a good anti-drain back valve . You normally don't want drain back ,just curious how you are determining this .
Until you pull the cams ,vct housings ,phaser covers stuff will still be stuck in there .Correlate it to your teeth, mouthwash is not going to clean your teeth , it takes a scrubbing and floss to get it out . Same with the plaque in your veins once its there it takes some intervention to open it up .
Something tells me your lashs/vcts housings are the problem . They are hard to test or clean ,thats why I replaced all mine at 130k ,after one roller was ejected to the side ,those were replaced too ,my full set of oem lashs and rollers $265 . If you can clean this up fully, you can save yourself labor and 1000's of dollars . I would do a proper job and get it over with. Price the engine job and new trucks .
Yes I would hate to pull heads but don't hesitate to keep changing oil and filter very quickly ,its going to take a lot to get it all out .An hv oil pump may be a big help since yours may be damaged .Not to mention you may want a door post type real oil gauge ,you do realize yours just reads mid scale for anything over 7 psi .
Thank you Red Fish.
After kerosene did not help we opened it back up.
Just got done cleaning out the right side scrubbing with tooth brushes and pouring about 2 gallons of gasoline through to the oil pan/catch pan.
The rear and middle oil drains were completely clogged. The front drained a little. They all flow well now and we are at 95% clean.
Getting ready to do the left side.
HOW CAN I CLEAN/TEST/Guarantee OIL DELIVERY TO THE HEAD COMPONENTS and the timing chain?
Please advice as you were in Saudi Arabia with incompetent folks and you just need to get it going... and get the heck out of the desert. Were not building a show truck or anything other than practical.
Respectfully, the cam phasers have very little wear. The chain appears to be in very good condition.
When - the truck does run, it does so quietly. With minimal tick... depending on the type of oil.
When the oil flows - it runs particularly well.
I'm not looking to what is best - or on an unlimited budget.
The objective is to have the truck running again at the least expense.
Kindly - oil flow is the objective.
Originally Posted by jefford
...
...
... HOW CAN I CLEAN/TEST/Guarantee OIL DELIVERY TO THE HEAD COMPONENTS and the timing chain?
Please advice as you were in Saudi Arabia with incompetent folks and you just need to get it going... and get the heck out of the desert. Were not building a show truck or anything other than practical.
Based on statements in prior post - sounds to me somewhat like 'internal' flow through the galleies / phasers / tensioners may be marginally OK. Sounds like the head (and perhaps front cover) drain back paths were obstructed by that massive gook. After engine ran long enough, the upper end filled completely up with liquid oil with none left in the pan until the pump pickup either clogged or sucked air - and you lost pressure.
As long as you have not (do not) open up any part of the oil circulatory system - you do not risk that crap from getting into the phasers. (Remember, the slightest piece getting past the screen in VCT valve Body or VCT Solenoid screens will KILL an otherwise good phaser). Hence - you can't judge a phaser by its outside.
I'm probably going to get BLASTED for this one - as I have read plenty who feel otherwise - but there is NO bypass to the oil filter. The oil filter will not allow unfiltered oil to pass into the galley. The only pressure bypass is right at the output of the oil pump. A spring / ball valve that relieves pressure above its setting RIGHT BACK INTO the oil pan. The oil system is a 'closed' system with virtually NO WAY for that gunk to get into galleys - so long as you are careful when you do oil filter change or changing VCT Solenoids, bearing surfaces, or opening something similar up that exposes galley passageways. The filter will catch any that the pump sends through that way. So use solvents - flush - flush - flush and change filter / (cheap) oil multiple times for some period.
I am attaching an oil system diagram that might be of some help. Good luck.
E D I T: --------------------------------------------------
"QUOTING MYSELF ABOVE: "but there is NO bypass to the oil filter. The oil filter will not allow unfiltered oil to pass into the galley."
... WRONG: I find that filters ARE designed to bypass under certain conditions. Details posted here: https://www.f150forum.com/f4/oil-fil...9/#post6129997
Last edited by F150Torqued; 03-15-2019 at 01:27 PM.
F150Torqued - You are the man! Thank you for the diagram - this is everything!
I agree with everything although I do no understand how to evaluate the cam phasers.
The overall assumption that the upper end filled with oil and none left in the pan is correct. Exactly where the oil is / was I do not know. The problem is when I opened up the heads again - the right side was very very dry and the new timing components on the right side were dry.
We got the left side, well my buddy, got the left side open yesterday afternoon and we are mostly clean. I'm doing another cleaning on both sides today.
I now have oil return to the pan from all 3 drains and the VCT ports are flowing nicely.
NOTE: I have flow to the camshaft - although the right side got hot and 3 of the aluminum brackets got hot and are slightly scuffed with minimum acceptable clearance for lubrication.
On the left side - TWO REAR lifters are loose. One is floppy. Can those be tightened? I don't know why the spring is not returning fully and will do more cleaning there when it gets light.
THe overall assumption is I do not KNOW ACTUAL OIL PRESSURE to even gauge how much oil is being delivered or how high into the motor. I simply can not evaluate pump performance other than on/off.
So I have the Muelling oil pump in a box, so we are going to put that in as the root cause could have been intermittinat failure of the pump itself - and/or pump restrictions.
HOW CAN I EVALUATE CAM PHASER CONDITION ? This rig has 77,000 miles and another $230 bucks is it necessary? I have those in a box here as well. The good ones from Rock Auto.
I ordered parts and am evaluating - determining what needs to go in. Notably the truck drove well and drove quietly in the current condition with minimal tick, has low miles and low strain. Just poor oil flow.
F150Torqued - You are the man! Thank you for the diagram - this is everything!
... I do no understand how to evaluate the cam phasers.
...
...
...
Don't feel bad. NOBODY else does either. There is quiet a bit that goes on inside the damn thing. And it's working right absolutely depends on perfectly clean oil to flow into / out of small passageways to push the vanes forward and backward. (ANY junk gets inside one - it's TOAST) I wouldn't even try taking a working one apart and expect it to work right afterward.
Only thing I could suggest for evaluating phaser's condition -- is that their live operation CAN be monitored and viewed via OBDII by scanner with decent capability. IE: (Torque Pro). https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...4/#post5133357 - one must keep in mind at every phase that they are totally dependent on BOTH adequate oil flow & pressure. They have an intricate locking pin inside that must lock them at ZERO retard on shutdown or you will get a P034x series DTC on startup. Running - if they deviate more than 5 camshaft degrees - for more than 5 seconds from the PCM's REQUESTED RETARD, you will get a P001x or P002x DTC. If you are not getting those ---- I'm hopeful they have survived thus far.
/// BTW: When you are doing a flush operation - (Or monitoring with the above OBDII Monitor screen), you can actuate the phasers repeatedly to full retard and return to full advance by: Place the shifter in second gear, with foot on brake torque the engine up > 800 RPM and > 25% engine load, sends them to full RETARD. This forces oil to enter / exit all passages as the vanes move from one extreem to the other. ///
As for your TWO LOOSE rockers. The "ONLY" thing that takes the slack out is the lash adjuster. If lash adjuster is not extending fully - or if ware in the Roller/Follower bearings exceeds lash adjuster's capability - is the only thing that will explain that. BEWARE: if the slack gets too great, it can 'spit' the roller/follower out. It is only held in place by tension between valve spring and lash adjuster.
03-01-2019, 04:17 PM
Agreed eco builder did a fantastic job of cleaning
