I have changed the timing chain, cam phasers, camshaft sensor, crank shaft sensor and variable timing solenoid and my 2004 F150 Lariet still wont run right. I can't get around the block with it.
I spent today looking at all the wires and I didn't find any problems. Took it apart and double checked the timing. Have no idea where to go from here. The only code that keeps coming up is 0345.
Open to your suggestions.

 

looks like a lot of electrical issues can result in this
https://www.autocodes.com/p0345_ford.html

 

@Tami860

The DTC descriptions published for P0340 and P0345 are worded horribly STUPID and misleading. They almost always send troubleshooters (and seasoned mechanics) off on a rabbit trail wasting money for a cam sensors or looking for wiring (circuit) problems that don't exist - and are ALMOST NEVER the issue. Whoever wrote those DAMN DTC DESCRIPTIONS should be SHOT with the parts cannon instead of the trucks!!!

A few VERY IMPORTANT mechanical considerations. First and most important --- the CPS Sensors (both) are 'POLLED' by the PCM on a 'bus' type common 'signal circuit'. That 'common bus' type circuit provides ("signal return") to the PCM on pin 58. Via that signal return, the PCM 'polls' and reads the signals for BOTH camshaft Position Sensors 1 & 2, Power Steering Pressure Sensor, Fuel Rail Pressure Temperature Sensor, Engine Oil Temperature Sensor, MAF/Intake Air Temperature Sensor. CLUE. If you are not having trouble or erroneous readings from another one of those sensors, a 'circuit problem' is NOT the issue --- save / except a couple of conditions noted below.

While alternator NOISE, electrical shorts and other electrical issues can effect that circuit. NUMEROUS other (more likely) mechanical causes produce them - and should be included in the DTC description.

NOTE that P0340 and P0345 occur during cranking. P0345 "ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY" indicates that: When the PCM 'POLLED' the Bank 2 CPS sensor looking for the proper phaser finger to pass in front of the sensor ---- It didn't see it when it should have been there!!! The Phaser has an internal 'locking pin' that SHOULD lock the Phaser at ZERO degrees retard. During cranking --- there is NO oil pressure to hold Phasers at full advance, so the locking pin must hold the Phaser internals at 'BASE ZERO retard' until engine oil pressure comes us to hold it there. During cranking, the PCM detects crankshaft position based on Crankshaft Position Sensor. It knows EXACTLY when the proper phaser finger should appear in front of each CPS sensor if cams are timed correctly and locked at ZERO degrees retard. If the proper phaser finger does not pass the sensor when it should during cranking = P0340 or P0345. It is the 'CRANKING' aspect of this that opens the possibility of 'starter' dragging or low battery causing circuit noise (per se) to result in the code. But otherwise, it is almost ALWAYS mechanical.

After startup - oil pressure should hold the phaser at base timing because the PCM is requesting NO retard at idle. If the same condition occurs at that point - the code is P0344 or P0349 (ie intermittently the proper phaser finger is NOT sensed passing the CPS sensor when the PCM polled the CPS sensor). Hince the STUPID A$_S DTC description. Of course excessive electrical NOISE could intermittently obscure the signal - BUT so will sagging oil pressure that is unable to firmly hold the Phaser in the position commanded by the PCM. Often camshaft / valve train drag will cause the cam retard position to 'dance' back and forth resulting in horrible inbalance between bank cams positioning and very rough idle.

The difference between 340/345 and 344/349 is huge. Primarily in the fact that the first two are detected and occur during cranking. You will get one of the first two if a chain is OFF timing by one or more teeth. You will also get the first two if the 'locking pin' inside the phaser is worn out and/or failing to lock the phaser at base - even if oil pressure is totally adequate. A "bent" phaser finger from rough shipping / handling will cause them. Since you mention having 'changed' timing components, a possibility is a BAD phaser if cheap aftermarket (one that fails to lock phaser) is installed or (perhaps chain off timing by a tooth).

But DON'T go off TOO FAR on the circuit problem RABBIT TRAIL.

 

Wow F150Torgued you gave me a lot to think about. Unfortunately I still have major issues going on. Since I last posted I had a new code come up. 0171 and I still get the 0345 also. I have changed the IMRC, intake gaskets, fuel injector o rings, fuel filter, MAF sensor and used sea foam to clean out everything. The truck is rough idling, has no power, stalls and smells like exhaust.
I ran the OBD11 a couple days ago and got like 5 codes. I cleared them waited a little while and checked again. I was back to the 0171 and 0345. This is making me think maybe I need a computer if it is throwing out random codes.
It was not running like this before the timing went. That was just a slight hesitation and a little rough start untill the timing chain blew a hole through the valve cover on the highway. I feel like it has to be something so stupid that I can't even see it. I feel like I have changed everything that is obvious.We are talking months of nights and weekends working on this beast and getting nowhere.

 

PLEASE, please my friend - Don't let this thing infect your logical thinking - ALL because of one stupid LAME DTC description that renders it useless as a logical diagnostic processes input.

Your computer isn't throwing 'random' codes. In fact P0171 is totally logical when considered with the TRUE mechanical cause of P0345 (NOT some damn LAME electrical cause). If you can stand reading another long-winded post taking numerous facts under consideration, bear with me.

The FACT that P0171 (lean Bank 1) has taken a while to appear is a useful piece to the diagnostic puzzle. But first analyze the relationship between P0171 and 'Timing codes' (P0345 being one them - but it's being detected 'at startup' is acutely important in your case). Valves open 'later' when cam is 'retarded'. When intake valve opens 'later' (past TDC), the cylinder draws in proportionately less air. **(AH - big clue here)**. **(especially when the lean code is on bank 1, the timing code is on Bank 2.)** The LEAN code on Bank 1 'confirms' over retard condition on Bank 2. Here is HOW: Fuel / Air ratio is maintained by the PCM adjusting injector pulse width (fuel trims) on each bank independently. AND independently from all other codes too. The retarded cam (Bank 2) draws in 'less' air on intake strokes. THUS, Bank 1 is drawing in proportionately MORE air per revolution and thus requires more fuel to maintain proper fuel/air ratio. IE: increased injector pulse width-- IE: positive fuel trim is the natural result. When fuel trims exceed >25% LTFT & 10% STFT, the PCM will set Lean code. JUST TRUST ME on this one for the moment. The concepts LEAN / RICH, (Lean fuel or Lean Air / fuel trims elevated or depressed etc) is hard concept to warp our minds around and may be for a later discussion - but an over retarded cam on one bank will cause lean code on the opposite bank.

In my prior post - I submitted four possible causes for your P0345. Defective Phaser, Internal locking pin failure, bent phaser finger, or off timing position off a tooth or two on chain. The "FACT" that P0171 has shown up points greater probability of it being the later (simply off timing a notch) - because the condition MUST be occurring more than JUST during startup. I find it highly unlikely to result in P0171 if truly occurring ONLY on startup. _AND_ the 'rough idle' is a distinct symptom of lower compression on 4 cylinders resulting from lighter aspiration under retarded intake stroke..

However - your having done a number of other repair things -OPENS- up some other possibilities that should be diagnostically eliminated first. The easy one is the LEAN code since you have an OBDII reader. Set your reader to monitor STFT on bank 1, and while idling, blow an unlit propane torch all around bank 1 side of the intake manifold gaskets, underneath intake manifold, each injector 'o' rings etc. If you hit a leak spot - fuel trims will go VERY NEGATIVE instantly.

It would be handy to know any other codes you have gotten. One might provide a 'tid-bit' of information.

Since you have replaced timing components - did you use Ford OEM parts or cheap aftermarket Phasers. FordTechMakuloco has several useful and cautionary videos on that subject, including one dealing specifically with checking for a phaser finger bent during shipment or installation.

If you verify the P0171 is NOT caused by vacuum leak - it would be time to remove Bank 2 Valve Cover an do some inspection for bent finger - but I doubt that now with appearance of the LEAN CODE.

Unfortunately - an OFF timing marks situation is 'impossible' to absolutely verify without a full teardown or professional use of an oscilloscope.

If you are using Torque Pro - we MIGHT be able to determine that, but probably not conclusively.

Good luck. And DON'T replace that computer YET.

 

what He Said!

 

Believe it or not I still don't have the truck running right. I have done a complete timing job (including phasers), camshaft, crankshaft & Maf sensors, intake & fuel injector gaskets, fuel filter, IMRC, spark plugs and ran seafoam through it. Now I am running 10W40 and I can't get rid of Code P0022. It is running rough..Throwing a couple misfire codes after I drive it for a little while. But with all that said it still has power when i push the peddle.
I got down to the timing chain again to verify the timing and found one of the brand new phasers was coming apart. Changed that and the truck idles a little better now, but still runs shaky. I started looking into buying a new motor, but I don't have that kind of money. Any ideas from you guys would be greatly appreciated.
Tami

 

I'm assuming you've already changed the valve cover and timing cover gaskets, did you put sealant where its recommended? I'd replace the oil pan gasket too. Only recommending this, since the engine crankcase ventilation system keeps the inside of the engine at negative pressure, so any place that a gasket is bad, it pulls in unmetered air, and causes the engine to run rough.

 

Have a 2010 F150 with the 4.6. It's working unbelievably well, but throwing the po345 code.replaced both CPS's. even switched them and still getting the code on bank 2.

 

..
Somebody needs to go kick the $hi.t out of whoever wrote the DTC trouble code description for this DTC. Perhaps YOU are the one who will do it. The PCM 'polls' the CPS sensor at a specific moment - looking for the Cam Position during cranking to determine when to fire the COP on cylinder number one - (and establishing proper timing order beginning from Cylinder One TDC). If you analyze the electrical schematic for Engine Performance Wiring, you will see that the CPS sensor are on a 'bus' with several other sensors ----- inculding stupid $hi.t such as the Power Stering Pressure switch So the PCM polls the CPS sensor when it see the missing tooth on the crankshaft tone ring wheel (indicating piston on number one should be at TDC), and then 'polls' (or ie: looks for) the fifth finger on the Phaser to pass the CPS sensor. If it isn't there ----- we are on the EXHAUST STROKE of the 4 Stroke cycle. ----- NO PROBLEM,,,,, unless we don't see it (the fifth Phaser finger) on the next revolution. If the PCM doesn't see it then - then the cam IS NOT at base timing (ZERO degrees retard). That can ONLY occur if the cam phaser locking pin is NOT properly locked at Base timing (Zero degrees retard) ----- or some stupid electrical problem. The later, for some reason is the only possibility mentioned for the DTC Code 345, and almost EVERYBODY jumps to the conclusion that the sensor is Foobared instead of accepting the reality that the Phaser is not locking down at base zero degrees on shutdown.

Just sayin'.