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1) 18.2 mpg. While I agree with you, that strikes me as a rabbit trial. Right now, IDK how Torque derives "Avg MPG", but I'm relatively sure it is not from the Instrument Cluster module via the CAN bus. If it's calculated by Torque ---- all bets are off because I do have no idea of the input parameters. No insult intended but Let's put that on the back burner - please.
2) MAF 3.85 g/s ----- Agreed, IS LOWER. BUT... so is RPM, and IDK what is normal in "g/s" --- . I "NOTICE" your latest freeze frame was 'grabbed' basically at IDLE (657 RPM @ 3.137% throttle, ZERO mph) and the last one was 1312, 35mph. That "could" explain that difference. The Diagnostic Reference Chart attached to post #8 above lists readings in volts. If you have a good DVM, I would expend the cost free effort to check MAF voltage at IDLE against the diagnostic reference voltage of .01 volts KOEO, and 0.71 @ hot idle. (I'm not sure how you are supposed to lay across the engine holding a VOM on PCM Plug "B", Pin 40 while you're driving 35 to 55 mph, so I suppose we can skip that test.)
3) I notice no significant imbalance in fuel trim (such as might suggest cam over retard or PRE DTC from cam over retard condition). Everything else in the freeze frame(s) do not look a-miss, except fuel trim on Bank 1. ///All supports your original suspicion ///
4) It is looking "more and more" like you may be right about a faulty injector - that is passing more fuel than it should for a given injector electric pulse width, or trash in preventing it from shutting OFF absolutely. There is very little ELSE that can result in bank 1 O2 (being new) reporting over rich condition after fuel trims are reduced practically to max. PROBLEM IS: It is extremely hard to isolate WHICH one is the problem child, unless you can find evidence on a spark plug tip. (White chalky deposits on lean ones - black / sooty deposits on the culprit one.) I can't even think of what you could monitor while "unplugging" one injector at a time. All that would do is cause a misfire code and OBVIOUSLY effect Bank 1 fuel trim --- doubtfully in such a way as to be diagnostically beneficial.
5) Short of that, the only other "no cost" (and relatively simple) "diagnostic" effort that might be useful would be to swap all four injectors from bank 1 to bank 2 and see if the P0172 turns into a P0174.
I am not in favor of "refurbished" injectors, and good quality new ones are EXPENSIVE!
Having said all that, if the problem moved to bank 2 with the injectors, I would be in favor of replacing all injectors (as a set). I replaced ALL of mine in conjunction with my timing chain job (at right about $100.00 each with shipping) and have NEVER regretted it for one second. My mileage went up and idle is so smooth you can stand a nickel on edge on the air cleaner while it's idling.
Keep us posted please. I am very interested in your resolution
Good Luck
Man thanks for all the help and great insight into this, most of it is definitely over my head as I've never had to do more than change oil and filters previously.
Last night I only had a few minutes and pulled plug 1. It definitely has some sooty deposits on it. At start up I occasionally get misfires from cylinders 1, 3 and 8. So I'm assuming for bank 1 more problems at least start with 1 and 3. When I get some time this weekend I'm going to pull all the plugs on bank 1 and check them all out, and also check the MAF. I imagine I'll at least find plug 3 to look similar to 1.
Where did you get your injectors from and what did you get? I can definitely tell you, that you can't put anything on edge on my air cleaner while idling and expect it to remain standing. It's not terrible but it's definitely not that smooth.
As for the gas mileage, didn't mean to start looking into it, just meant it more as a joke. Not sure how Torque calculates it but my Edge was showing 14-15 mpg so one of the 2 is off, and I'd bet that the Edge is more accurate.
Here's a pic of the plug from cylinder 1. It's blurry but you can see the build up on it.
How many miles does that truck have on it? Just curious - and hoping you aren't seeing the very early stages of what everybody seems to go through leading up to a timing job. I see you have frequented other threads with intermittent / random misfire problems, replacing COP's and stuff.
I had trouble finding much in the way of testimonials or user informaton about injectors - so I just sprung for ALL NEW (not reman) units. Think I paid like $92.00 each (typical for me, they are $84.00 now!!). I got them from AutoPlicity through Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/product-review...owViewpoints=1
May just have been a function of 212,000 miles but I am REALLY happy with the results. I walk into the post office or corner store and it's idling quieter than a Mercedes parked next to it!
It has 137k miles on it, bought it about 5k miles ago, back in January.
How much did the timing chain job end up running? I knew this was going to be a project truck, but hopefully everything doesn't end up costing an arm and a leg. But hopefully when I'm done with everything it'll last me 10+ years. Thanks for the links!
... How much did the timing chain job end up running?
Probably should only be quoted as a gauge for the absolute OUTSIDE cost.. but I spent right at $3,300. But that _includes_ $600 for two serious (totally avoidable) screw ups of my own. I cut no corners and spared nothing. About the only things not replaced were short block components.
Extras beyond a straight phaser/timing chain/guides job included lash adjusters, roller-followers, MMR metal tensioner arms, cast iron tensioners, Melling 10340 oil pump, 8 injectors, new spark plugs & boots, Glowshift sandwitch oil filter adapter, water pump, alternator, all idler pulleys, serpentine belt and belt tensioner, oil, filter, antifreeze and a couple of special tools / misc items. https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...2/#post4587382
But I'm betting I could not have bought a different truck that is in as good shape mechanically for anywhere close to that number.
Last edited by F150Torqued; 05-26-2016 at 02:02 AM.
I finally got through a bunch of the reading you gave and wow, a lot of it is over whelming and just trying to keep a lot of it straight, since I'm not mechanically inclined.
However, I got TONS of great information out of it, and think I have my problems narrowed down to my fuel injectors, which is where you've been directing me towards the entire time.
Other than just the P0172 system too rich code, the fuel injectors could also be the source of my shudder/mis-fires in over drive at 45-44 mph. For now I'm just going to replace the ones on bank 1 and see what improvements I get from that. I get misfires from cylinders 7 and 8, more often from 8, and we'll probably switch those ones out as well.
Based on that post, basically if you can, get a fuel pressure gauge and watch the pressure when you shut the car off. If it drops way down, you most likely have an injector leaking.
I'm sure there's a way to monitor my fuel pressure on the Torque app since I get it on the freeze frame report when I trip the P0172 code, I'll have to take a look at that and see what it shows.
EDIT: Added the fuel injector pulse width, fuel pressure, fuel rail pressure and fuel rail pressure (relative to manifold vacuum).
Last edited by mavrik2747; 05-26-2016 at 02:17 PM.
@LaMartian is looking to monitor steady state pressure when engine stops. Torque's not going to do that - unless you can kill the engine with Key On, to keep the Bluetooth dongle alive. I agree with @LaMartian, that reading would be helpful. I've never tried that.
05-24-2016, 10:18 PM
Possible injector
