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2004 - 2008 Ford F150 General discussion on the 2004 - 2008 Ford F150 truck.

Long Term Fuel Trim Values

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Old Nov 27, 2018 | 10:36 AM
  #1  
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Default Long Term Fuel Trim Values

Just poking around Torque Pro a bit. My long term fuel trim values are:
LTFT1 = 6.2
LTFT2 = 4.7
Short term values bobble around zero
Does this seem somewhat normal?
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Old Nov 27, 2018 | 01:49 PM
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That is definitely 'somewhat' normal. The system appears to be doing what it is designed to do - make minor adjustments to compensate for small variations in certain sensitive components (MAF / O2 Sensors / Injectors etc). This can result from many things. Who knows, even some things off in opposite directions. Injector nozzle(s) dirty - not flowing at calibrated rate, O2 sensor calibration drifted, fuel pressure off slightly, MAF dirty degrading air flow measurement --- etc. etc. The big clue is if Short Term adjustment settles out around Zero, the system is able to handle whatever deviation that is causing it.

LTFT being positive does not 'necessarily' mean more fuel than normal is being delivered - but it COULD! Such as in the case of a vacuum leak. It could be dirty - partially clogged injector(s). More data is needed. 1st consideration. If this is at idle, and if LTFT is 'lower' at slightly increased RPM, and even LESS at higher RPM. (The 'effect' of a vacuum leak is exaggerated at the least -metered- air flow rate (ie: idle).) If that the case, I would do the unlit propane torch test while monitoring short term fuel trims.
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Old Nov 27, 2018 | 02:02 PM
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I made a screen to get a little more detail. Watching the meters, levels go above and below zero when driving. You can also see the high and low water marks.

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Old Nov 27, 2018 | 08:07 PM
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Fuel Trim readings are very dynamic readings. It's hard to make judgments bast on snapshot readings. Their cumulative reaings are good indicators - and keep in mind, STFT indicates the 'direction' that LTFT will be drifting.

Based upon the above display - if nothing changes, after a period LTFT should be +7.04, which _IS_ a little high. Based on prior reported readings and this latest screen - I believe I would look for a vacuum leak around / under the intake manifold around bank 1. Either injector lower 'O' rings, intake manifold gaskets, or cracked Intake manifold.

ADDITIONALLY: Torque Pro "Histograms" are a good way to visualize cumulative readigs over a period of time. Also, I use another APP in conjunction with Torque Pro that is VERY GOOD - called "RealTime Charts for Torque Pro". You can graph -ANY- PID that exists in Torque. Here is an example of my graphing Phaser operation.

https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...0/#post5441827


ALSO: There are two PIDs designated 'REAR FUEL TRIM BIAS' readings. IDK what their meaning is specifically. But from monitoring them, I can tell they have some weight on direction of Fuel Trims. They Are:

Mode/PID: 22163E
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 1 Rear O2
Short Nm: REARFT1
Min/Max 0/100
Unit: %
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto

Mode/PID: 22163F
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 2 Rear O2
Short Nm: REARFT2
"
same-same "

FINALLY:
It's a very small thing - and likely because I'm perfectionist. (My wife more aptly calls it "****"). Switch sides of the display with Bank1 and Bank2 to match the engine compartment as from the drivers seat!!!!! Haha. You can beat me about the head and shoulders for that one!!
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Old Nov 28, 2018 | 07:54 AM
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Very helpful information and I WILL switch those around

I just got a set of injectors and COP boots and will change them when things warm up. We just got 11" of snow here in Illinois this week so nothing being done on the truck right now. Will also look around intake.
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Old Nov 28, 2018 | 01:53 PM
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I took a stab at the Realtime Charts app. The green and blue lines are the long term fuel trims and the red and yellow lines are the short term units. I drove about a mile and let it run.


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Old Nov 28, 2018 | 04:02 PM
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Now there you go! You're well on your way to a good Master Diagnostician!

In the 'Review' mode on RealTime Charts, you can 'pinch zoom' and stretch that screen out for a little less 'scrunched' view. Pay special attention to the times at those little 'blue' Trip Marks. That is when you stopped at a stop sign or red light (which means idle). The graph shows STFT both above and below ZERO - as it should - but the 'mean average' is above zero. That fact is reflected in LTFT(s). But _I believe_ it looks like LTFT may average higher at those trip tick marks -- (Like perhaps at idle). If that's the case, that strongly suggests a vacuum leak - effecting both banks, but Bank 1 more than 2. It is unlikely any single component or set of components would hit both banks - one slightly more than the other.

Keep in mind. Fuel Trim tables in the PCM are multidimensional (resembles a rubric's cube) and stores fuel trim values for different RPM / Throttle / Load conditions. That makes it more difficult to make sense out of trim readings under live driving conditions - not knowing 'which cell' is effecting the stored reading.

You might want to ADD a bold Sensor Trace to your RealTime Chart based on Engine RPM - OR - Engine Load, or maybe even both.

I'm a big fan of replacing injectors - as routine maintenance item somewhere ~ 100 to 200K miles (with new / non-reman), and replacing boots it GOOD --- "ANYTIME" for their cost. I'd never discourage either. But based on what we have seen from OBDII at this point, if I were holding the wrenches, I would be monitoring STFT while blowing an unlit propane torch all around bottom injector o'rings, intake ports, UNDER the IM on both sides of the alternator, down behind the IM and all around vacuum connections/lines.
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Old Nov 28, 2018 | 04:10 PM
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Thanks for the tips! Very helpful.
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