Lockers
02-06-2009, 06:46 AM
#1
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Lockers
I am wanting to put a locker in my the front and rear end of my truck and I was wondering what I could possible get to go in them. I havn 06 f150 fx4 and was wondering what suggestions some of you guys might have. I am wanting to put like an electonic or a mechanical in the rear but not for sure what was available. Thanks
02-06-2009, 11:59 AM
#2
Senior Member
You got plenty of options.
For the rear, a lock-rite is out because you already had limited slip. They only work in an open differential case.
You have a 9.75" axle, and a 8.8" front axle, so you could go with a detroit locker, a detroit True trac, any number of limited slip diffs, and there's a couple electric lockers out there.
I hate most limited slips, because they are not agressive enough, and too often leave you with the wheel you need to turn not turning. Some may say the detroit locker is not good for the street. (I disagree, I have one in my 1996 f-350, and love it). The only thing about the detroit locker is you can feel the truck shift to the side a little in curves as you get on and off the gas pedal, as you go from drive to coast. You get used to it in about 20 minutes. They do not chirp the tires in turns unless you are powering through the turn in a manner that would normally break your inside tire loose (which will cause the locker to lock), with a normal differential. Basically, with the detoit locker, instead of allowing your inside tire to slow down in a turn, it allows your inside tire to maintain speed, and your outside tire to speed up. Neither tire may spin slower than the ring gear.
Electric lockers are cool too. They only lock when you push the button, but they're kinda expensive. That's really the only downfall I can think of. The 2009 FX-4 has this feature standard in the rear.
The detroit True Trac is probably the best most versatile diff out there. It's like a limited slip that never wears out. No clutches. It will transmit up to 4 times the torque used at the slipping wheel to the wheel that has traction. It does require a small amount of resistance to the slipping tire to work. in other words, if a tire is off the ground, the other tireprobably won't get power. It will leave 2 stripes too if you so choose. You will never even know you have one of these in the truck until it does it's thing. They work very well in the front axle as well.
The only caution, (learned from experience) DON'T use a locker in the front unless you ...
1. get an electric locker you can "shut off", or
2. use the truck for rock crawling and Nothing else.
My opinion, Detroit True-Trac in the front, and Detroit True Trac or detoit Locker in the rear. The locker is radical, but very street-able. True-Trac has wonderful road manners, and is as close to a locker as you can get without being one. There are very few situations where a true trac will only spin on tire, and that's if one is totally off the ground.
For the rear, a lock-rite is out because you already had limited slip. They only work in an open differential case.
You have a 9.75" axle, and a 8.8" front axle, so you could go with a detroit locker, a detroit True trac, any number of limited slip diffs, and there's a couple electric lockers out there.
I hate most limited slips, because they are not agressive enough, and too often leave you with the wheel you need to turn not turning. Some may say the detroit locker is not good for the street. (I disagree, I have one in my 1996 f-350, and love it). The only thing about the detroit locker is you can feel the truck shift to the side a little in curves as you get on and off the gas pedal, as you go from drive to coast. You get used to it in about 20 minutes. They do not chirp the tires in turns unless you are powering through the turn in a manner that would normally break your inside tire loose (which will cause the locker to lock), with a normal differential. Basically, with the detoit locker, instead of allowing your inside tire to slow down in a turn, it allows your inside tire to maintain speed, and your outside tire to speed up. Neither tire may spin slower than the ring gear.
Electric lockers are cool too. They only lock when you push the button, but they're kinda expensive. That's really the only downfall I can think of. The 2009 FX-4 has this feature standard in the rear.
The detroit True Trac is probably the best most versatile diff out there. It's like a limited slip that never wears out. No clutches. It will transmit up to 4 times the torque used at the slipping wheel to the wheel that has traction. It does require a small amount of resistance to the slipping tire to work. in other words, if a tire is off the ground, the other tireprobably won't get power. It will leave 2 stripes too if you so choose. You will never even know you have one of these in the truck until it does it's thing. They work very well in the front axle as well.
The only caution, (learned from experience) DON'T use a locker in the front unless you ...
1. get an electric locker you can "shut off", or
2. use the truck for rock crawling and Nothing else.
My opinion, Detroit True-Trac in the front, and Detroit True Trac or detoit Locker in the rear. The locker is radical, but very street-able. True-Trac has wonderful road manners, and is as close to a locker as you can get without being one. There are very few situations where a true trac will only spin on tire, and that's if one is totally off the ground.
02-06-2009, 09:34 PM
#3
Proudly Rockin the XL!
Okay, so, I've got an extension to this topic:
My 08 XL w/ 4.2 & 5-speed tranny has an open 8.8 rear, I believe 31 spline, with pansy *** 3.31 gears. The truck did alright with the stock 17s and 30" tires, but now that I've got 32" tires on FX4 rims, the acceleration and hauling ability sucks. I plan to get 4.10 gears put in, and I had also been planning to have a limited slip (Ford Racing Trac Loc) installed. However, over the couple months since I got the quote for these upgrades, I've read several threads here, including this one, which have lead me to believe that a limited slip diff really isn't much better than open, so why spend the money on just a limited slip?
My reading has me thinking I should go for a locker instead of a limited slip. With the truck being 2wd, I want it to still behave relatively calmly on the road, just would like to put power to both drive wheels in limited traction situations. It seems like an electric or vaccuum operated locker might be the best option, but I'm not looking to spend a grand on a locker. Would a Detroit Truetrac be what I'm looking for? It sounds like it would put power to both wheels when needed, but still allow the truck to take turns as if it has an open diff. It is $450, so still $200 more than a Ford Trac-Loc, but that's a lot easier to swallow than $1000.
Can a Detroit Truetrac be installed in an open diff case? Are there any other options that might be feasible, perhaps even better?
Furthermore, I understand that a locker will allow you to roast both tires, and make the truck easy to get sideways/spin around while doing a burnout. Does this carry over to when driving down a wet or snow/ice covered road? I guess what I mean is, will having a locker in the rear make the truck less predictable, more likely to slide or spin out, while driving on low traction surfaces? This is a concern for me, since we have plenty of snow covered roads here during the winter months.
Lastly - Is installing a locker and new gears something that a home garage mechanic can tackle? I have a wide array of tools, all of the common sizes, along with air wrench/sockets, and all the standard garage equipment such as jack, stands, etc; I also have plenty of wrenching experience on a wide variety of vehicles and parts, just no rear end internals experience. I would like to do the work myself, to save all the labor cost that a shop would charge, but I also don't want to undertake an insanely complicated task that will leave my truck incapacitated for days while I'm trying to finish the work.
Thanks for any input you guys can give!
My 08 XL w/ 4.2 & 5-speed tranny has an open 8.8 rear, I believe 31 spline, with pansy *** 3.31 gears. The truck did alright with the stock 17s and 30" tires, but now that I've got 32" tires on FX4 rims, the acceleration and hauling ability sucks. I plan to get 4.10 gears put in, and I had also been planning to have a limited slip (Ford Racing Trac Loc) installed. However, over the couple months since I got the quote for these upgrades, I've read several threads here, including this one, which have lead me to believe that a limited slip diff really isn't much better than open, so why spend the money on just a limited slip?
My reading has me thinking I should go for a locker instead of a limited slip. With the truck being 2wd, I want it to still behave relatively calmly on the road, just would like to put power to both drive wheels in limited traction situations. It seems like an electric or vaccuum operated locker might be the best option, but I'm not looking to spend a grand on a locker. Would a Detroit Truetrac be what I'm looking for? It sounds like it would put power to both wheels when needed, but still allow the truck to take turns as if it has an open diff. It is $450, so still $200 more than a Ford Trac-Loc, but that's a lot easier to swallow than $1000.
Can a Detroit Truetrac be installed in an open diff case? Are there any other options that might be feasible, perhaps even better?
Furthermore, I understand that a locker will allow you to roast both tires, and make the truck easy to get sideways/spin around while doing a burnout. Does this carry over to when driving down a wet or snow/ice covered road? I guess what I mean is, will having a locker in the rear make the truck less predictable, more likely to slide or spin out, while driving on low traction surfaces? This is a concern for me, since we have plenty of snow covered roads here during the winter months.
Lastly - Is installing a locker and new gears something that a home garage mechanic can tackle? I have a wide array of tools, all of the common sizes, along with air wrench/sockets, and all the standard garage equipment such as jack, stands, etc; I also have plenty of wrenching experience on a wide variety of vehicles and parts, just no rear end internals experience. I would like to do the work myself, to save all the labor cost that a shop would charge, but I also don't want to undertake an insanely complicated task that will leave my truck incapacitated for days while I'm trying to finish the work.
Thanks for any input you guys can give!
02-07-2009, 01:20 AM
#4
Senior Member
First of all, the only locker that can be installed "inside" an existing carrier without disassembly is a lock-right type unit. They can be installed ONLY in an open diff, not a limited slip. These are lockers and do the exact same thing as a Detroit Locker.
Here's the deal, Ford (and Dodge) limited slip diffs are pretty weak units. They are clutch type units, and wear out relatively quick. They were designed for mediocre traction, and perfect road manners. As they wear, they basically become OPEN differentials. Keep in mind, that every time you go around a corner, those clutches are slipping, and wearing. More turning will wear them quicker.
The Detroit Locker is literally a bomb-proof unit with OK road manners, although some will disagree with me, I love mine.
The detroit true trac is like a limited slip diff with worm gears and no clutches that will not wear out. This differential transmits 3 or 4 (depending on the application) times the torque resistance from the spinning tire to the tire you NEED to spin. For all intents and purposes, it acts like a limited slip, but won't let the spinning tire go wild while the other sits there and does nothing like a limited slip if you overcome the clutches. I have no idea why these aren't a factory option. They are awesome.
Yes the true trac will spin BOTH tires every time if you stomp the pedal, even though a limited slip usually will, but not necessarily.
If you're gonna change a rear end anyway, There is NO advantage to a clutch type limited slip over a true-trac that I can think of except $$$. As I said, it's the closest thing to a locker you can get without getting a locker. My theory is that if you get stuck with a true trac (not including rock-crawling) you probably would've gotten stuck with the locker too.
If you are mechanically inclined, you can do this yourself. Since you're not messing with the pinion gear, you only need to worry about 2 things, carrier preload, and backlash.
1. remove tires and calipers
2. remove diff cover
3. remove center pin and spider gears from carrier
4. remove c-clips
5. slide axles out
6. remove bearing caps (be sure to put them back in EXACTLY the same side and position)
7. pull out carrier
8. swap ring gear over to new carrier
9. press NEW bearings onto carrier
10. set it in the case with shims
11. add shims on the left side to adjust backlash (dial indicator)
12. add shims to the right side to add preload.
13. torque all fasteners, check backlash again, and reassemble.
That's a quick version. I left out a couple things but it's not bad at all.
Here's the deal, Ford (and Dodge) limited slip diffs are pretty weak units. They are clutch type units, and wear out relatively quick. They were designed for mediocre traction, and perfect road manners. As they wear, they basically become OPEN differentials. Keep in mind, that every time you go around a corner, those clutches are slipping, and wearing. More turning will wear them quicker.
The Detroit Locker is literally a bomb-proof unit with OK road manners, although some will disagree with me, I love mine.
The detroit true trac is like a limited slip diff with worm gears and no clutches that will not wear out. This differential transmits 3 or 4 (depending on the application) times the torque resistance from the spinning tire to the tire you NEED to spin. For all intents and purposes, it acts like a limited slip, but won't let the spinning tire go wild while the other sits there and does nothing like a limited slip if you overcome the clutches. I have no idea why these aren't a factory option. They are awesome.
Yes the true trac will spin BOTH tires every time if you stomp the pedal, even though a limited slip usually will, but not necessarily.
If you're gonna change a rear end anyway, There is NO advantage to a clutch type limited slip over a true-trac that I can think of except $$$. As I said, it's the closest thing to a locker you can get without getting a locker. My theory is that if you get stuck with a true trac (not including rock-crawling) you probably would've gotten stuck with the locker too.
If you are mechanically inclined, you can do this yourself. Since you're not messing with the pinion gear, you only need to worry about 2 things, carrier preload, and backlash.
1. remove tires and calipers
2. remove diff cover
3. remove center pin and spider gears from carrier
4. remove c-clips
5. slide axles out
6. remove bearing caps (be sure to put them back in EXACTLY the same side and position)
7. pull out carrier
8. swap ring gear over to new carrier
9. press NEW bearings onto carrier
10. set it in the case with shims
11. add shims on the left side to adjust backlash (dial indicator)
12. add shims to the right side to add preload.
13. torque all fasteners, check backlash again, and reassemble.
That's a quick version. I left out a couple things but it's not bad at all.
02-07-2009, 01:36 AM
#5
Senior Member
Re-read your post. a couple things to add...
1. Changing a differential is definitely something you could do yourself. Changing the gear ratio requires a lot more knowledge, and experience. The set-up is more involved. I would let a pro handle that one.
2. A limited slip and locker on a snow covered road will act similarly most of the time. Picture taking off from a red light. Both tires will spin, break traction, and tend to throw you sideways. The difference is, with a limited slip, if one tire is on ice or snow, and the other is on dry ground, the one on ice will spin, and you likely won't move very well. With a locker (or a TRUE-TRAC) you're gonna move.
A true trac (for lack of a better may to describe it) constantly is monitoring you wheel speed differentiation, and slipping, and adjusting the torque to where it would do the most good. It is much less likely to be "unpredictable" driving down the road, but if you stomp on the pedal, both tires will spin, and you'll go sideways.
Let's put it this way. If you're going down the road with a truetrac, and one wheel starts to break traction, the diff will decrease the torque to that wheel before it totally loses traction, and send it to the other side before you even know what happened.
For you, there is no question (again, just my opinion) that the True-Trac is the way to go. It's the best of both worlds. Put it in, you'll forget you have it, 'til you need it.
1. Changing a differential is definitely something you could do yourself. Changing the gear ratio requires a lot more knowledge, and experience. The set-up is more involved. I would let a pro handle that one.
2. A limited slip and locker on a snow covered road will act similarly most of the time. Picture taking off from a red light. Both tires will spin, break traction, and tend to throw you sideways. The difference is, with a limited slip, if one tire is on ice or snow, and the other is on dry ground, the one on ice will spin, and you likely won't move very well. With a locker (or a TRUE-TRAC) you're gonna move.
A true trac (for lack of a better may to describe it) constantly is monitoring you wheel speed differentiation, and slipping, and adjusting the torque to where it would do the most good. It is much less likely to be "unpredictable" driving down the road, but if you stomp on the pedal, both tires will spin, and you'll go sideways.
Let's put it this way. If you're going down the road with a truetrac, and one wheel starts to break traction, the diff will decrease the torque to that wheel before it totally loses traction, and send it to the other side before you even know what happened.
For you, there is no question (again, just my opinion) that the True-Trac is the way to go. It's the best of both worlds. Put it in, you'll forget you have it, 'til you need it.
02-07-2009, 08:30 AM
#7
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure they make an ARB for that axle. They are a tough unit, but they require an onboard air supply (compressor). I think I'd just be afraid of developing an air leak inside the differential after a while, and have to go in there again to fix it, or hitting something and knocking the air line off.
That's just a fear I have, probably not justified, since I haven't heard of anybody that had that happen. Our Freightliner tractors at work have the same type of setup on the interaxle and power divider locks, and we never have a problem with them.
I'm just kinda a "simpler is better" kind of guy.
There's alot of options. I just like the True Trac because I have one in my f-150, and love it. Makes the factory trac-lok look like a joke.
That's just a fear I have, probably not justified, since I haven't heard of anybody that had that happen. Our Freightliner tractors at work have the same type of setup on the interaxle and power divider locks, and we never have a problem with them.
I'm just kinda a "simpler is better" kind of guy.
There's alot of options. I just like the True Trac because I have one in my f-150, and love it. Makes the factory trac-lok look like a joke.
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02-07-2009, 12:39 PM
#8
Proudly Rockin the XL!
driver - Thank you VERY much for your in depth replies, I really do appreciate it! I have to agree that a Detroit True-Trac really sounds like the route I want to take, along with 4.10 gears.
So, if the gear ratio change is a job for a professional, I wouldn't save anything by installing the True-Trac myself, since the whole diff has to be torn down to do the gear change, correct? I guess I'll start getting some pricing on just installation, and I'm sure it won't be cheap, lol.
Thanks again.
So, if the gear ratio change is a job for a professional, I wouldn't save anything by installing the True-Trac myself, since the whole diff has to be torn down to do the gear change, correct? I guess I'll start getting some pricing on just installation, and I'm sure it won't be cheap, lol.
Thanks again.
