houtxfdcapt

2007 F150 5.4 200K

Complete timing job with Ford phasers, metal tensioners, new guides, new ford VCT, melling 360hv, new rockers, new lifters, new cam sensors and pigtails, new plugs, new intake gaskets, flow tested injectors, used the crank positioning tool to time the crank with the phasers. also had to do the crank shims.


This is the second time I have been in there. I thought maybe while I was trying to build pressure I skipped a tooth, so I started all over. Drove it after the first time it went together and it would die when I stopped at a stop sign and if it stayed running when I tried to accelerate nothing would happen for awhile..then it would kick in. I would do the tps relearn after connecting the battery every time from a cold motor start.

VCTENA off?
VCT2DC no response
vcterror total seems way high
Bank 2 downstream sensor is new but I had cut out that cat and nothing was loose in it and I could see through it. I tried to weld it back but I suck, so it has some
leaks. I have a new cat ready to go in.

Bank 2 downstream looks all over the place
Bank 1 upstream doesn't look very responsive.

The above screen shots were taken after the engine had been running for about 45 minutes in my driveway, but I didnt drive it.

and while I recheck this thread for responses, I will be frustratingly looking back at working on this truck for 2 weeks and getting the whiskey out!

Eric Kleven

How old are the front O2 Sensors?

houtxfdcapt

Good question, we have had the truck for a year or so and look they look old....

F150Torqued

I'll take a 'whack' at it. That's sort like a 'swag' - more or less still learning what I DON'T KNOW. But since I've spent probably a thousand hours screwing with Torque Pro 'hacking' every PID I can find on my 2004 5.4L, I'll tell ya' what I see. Keep in mind, the Personal touch of knowing exactly what all the 'precious' conditions were at the instant data is grabbed always helps piece things together, so you fill in the gaps and cut me a little slack here.

First: I agree with @Eric Kleven, for the price of O2 sensors (especially considering that they DRIVE EVERYTHING in the OBDII / Fuel Trim calculations, thus contributing to all operations), I recommend replacing them @ ~ 100,000 preventatively.

With IAT at 122º I can see it has been sitting / idling for a spell. Confirmed by Load (20%) and Accel Pedal (20%). I monitor my MAF in g/sec, so I'm off balance on cfm. But I tried a rough calc conversion and it seems that's around ~ 8.25 g/s which is roughly OK at 662 RPM.

I think ((( FOR THE MOMENT ))), I'm going to set the CAM readings aside and focus on some other things. Basically at < 25% engine load OR 800 RPM, the PCM should NOT call for retard and thus VCT Duty Cycle should be zero anyway. /// I do note that you mentioned you get no data from VCT2DC -- that could be troubling depending on 'conditions' that lead you to say that ///. ALSO, VCTERR Totals have to be considered in perspective. They are 'pseudo' PIDs I have created -simply to get a feel for cam error trending. The specific numeric value doesn't have much meaning other than at IDLE, I would expect they should stay at - or VERY near zero.

Fuel Trims: ALL your Short Term fuel trim value has migrated into LONG TERM FUEL TRIMS, and the PCM is _NOW_ able to compensate for fuel air mixture with Short Term trim values ~ Zero. That's actually good. The NEGATIVE LONG TERM TRIMS on both banks (after 45 min idle) would suggest you have no vacuum leaks in those new IM gaskets. The "NEGATIVE" readings probably are the product of cleaning /flow testing injectors - OR the old O2 Sensors.

The "REAR" O2 sensors have little effect on where you are, but I would like to see nice clean switching in BOTH upstream O2 sensors - and almost perfectly flat (~ .65 to .7) on Both post cat sensors. If the PCM is seeing switching in post cat sensors, It is headed for a CAT EFFIENCY DTC, and THAT may be defaulting some parameters that effect or reduce power. I don't like 'multiple' variables. If the truck is running at all, I would ignore cams for right now and try to make sure the PCM has good readings from the O2 sensors so it can calculate reliable Fuel Trims for it to work with. AND make _double dog_ sure ALL electrical connections on every damn connector under that hood is cleaned and plugged / snapped.

ALSO - the 'IMRC' should NOT be 'ON' at idle / 660 RPM / 20% Load. ???? If you keyed in Formula (as apposed to downloading the CSV file), verify it is Mode/PID 221103, Formula {A:4} (that is a 'brace' not a 'parenthesis'), OR you can use the formula "Bit(A:4)"

Hope you haven't had too much time to down the whisky during the time I was writing this! I'll stay off the stuff for a while - We need both us good and sober to work through this.

houtxfdcapt

Thanks so much brother... I did import your file into torque and tried to build the screens like your examples.

I will pick up two upstream sensors on the way home in the morning and post up new data. I have not driven it since its been together this time. but the first time it would die at stop signs and act like the TPS was not reading pedal position.

redfishtd

Those are not recommended to be replaced by non shop or reman facility . Ford tech malukco does not recommend this fix because of crank damage . The last guy who did, found the new ones spit out within 200 miles .
But I don't get why your IMRC would be on at idle . I thought it was to be triggered under load . This is a common sticking issue when intake removed, its so tight back there runner control gets physically jammed . Some guys have wired theirs open . Intake manifold runner control is supposed to tumble air different for low throttle than loaded .
I wonder what your test value screen shot would look like ,any fails ? An ficmsync screen is for diesels?
Have you cleaned maf and throttle body and connectors ? I would ! With nothing happening for awhile when trying to throttle up sounds like throttle body trouble .Pcm recieves gas pedal info then sends encoded signal to circuit board on side of motor on throttle body. tps tells pcm if its at the correct point if not it shuts it down thereby avoiding a stuck throttle dangerous situation . Any mechanical binding in motor or shaft or failure of card to decode will cause this failure, mine did exactly that . Do you have stock air filter or after market, some oil types cause trouble .? I am just guessing . Certainly have to resolve O2 sensor problems .
Since you have done timing job any chance you may have put reluctor tone ring on backwards on crank sensor ?Some will run poorly others won't start. Clean that plug also .

houtxfdcapt

Yep I saw that post of the crank shims falling out at 200 miles. that sucks bad. I didnt have anything to loose since all the parts I bought were already installed on the motor. I didnt see that youtube video until later.

While I had TB off, I cleaned it and put a new TPS sensor on. working the throttle plate it was smooth, no sticking points.

Stock air filter housing, and I resealed the filter tray.

I even purchased a brand new reluctor ring from ford and made sure the stamped front was toward the timing cover. I also put three brand new cam?crank sensor pigtails in and used electronics cleaner in the crank sensor male end.

and I am really new to TorquePro and it has some left over PIDs from when I had my 7.3. I could have fat fingered the wrong one.

Cant tell you how much I appreciate you guys chiming in.. not sure how to decipher alot of this data...

please keep chiming in and I will check stuff on the truck.

and the throttle body assembly combined with all the wires on the gas pedal sensor I didnt even know where to start

F150Torqued

Something more about that: Figuring out that damn IMRC gizzmo is still a 'thorn' in my side. Something interesting here: Bit 4 of PID 1103 is a single 'Bit' flag, in a byte of various bit flags. ie: Other flags contained in this byte are for MIL on, EVAP Canister Purge occurring, Fuel System Open/Closed Loop, and OBDII TRIP completed this drive cycle.

My point is: Bit 4, is not a feed back signal indicating the Swirl Control butterflies are OPEN, but rather a one bit flag in a byte the computer stores at port 1103 for us OBDII blokes to read. That bit (IS SUPPOSED TO INDICATE) the PCM logic has commanded the IMRC valve open. The question is _WHY_? And if the IMRC is actually OPEN, would that explain the NEGATIVE fuel trims??? Without 'SWIRL' of slow moving intake air, would the O2 sensors see rich condition at idle and reduce fuel trim???. Is this the manor which the PCM determines the IMRC is stuck OPEN or CLOSED???? I'd say - could be, IDK. But it is a condition that should be further investigated instead of second guessing and overlooking.

It appears by the schematic that the PCM controls the IMRC by pulling Pin 43 on the Center PCM plug (Black/White wire) - going to Pin 4 on the IMRC connector - to ground. I might check voltage on that wire and make sure the linkage isn't binding. (The wiring harness to the IMRC an the bank 1 CHT Sensor should route between IMRC linkage and intake manifold, or it will rub / bind).

There is another PID that I believe provides feedback of the IMRC actual setting. It does some screwy reporting and I have had HELL trying to create a 'reliable' formula and watching the damn thing on a bore scope while driving. My current formula - that works 95% of the time (but gives erroneous readings occasionally) when displaying DEGREES OPEN from Zero to 90.
PID 221634, _Intake Manifold Runner (Swirl) Control, IMRCM, 0/90, Deg., (Signed(A)*256+B)+128)*90/640, Header blank or Auto.

Scraper

F150Torqued

Hi @Scraper

That's a 'loaded' question. Maybe I can provide help toward making that personal decision.

The functional purpose of Upstream and Downstream is completely different. Upstream O2 Sensors drive the 'Closed Loop' concept of tweaking injector pulse width (per Fuel Trim adjustments added to, or subtracted from, the factory base pulse width on a 'continual basis' in an effort to achieve optimum fuel/air mixture - at all times. To me, those are a definite replace because if they get contaminated, or lazy - slow to react, or get OUT OF CALIBRATION they make the engine run on a richer or leaner mixture --- WHILE the PCM thinks everything is OK. Motorcraft or Bosch are OK.

Downstream, on the other hand, monitors post Catalytic Converter exhaust gases to see how well the CAT is doing its job - (forcing a chemical reaction between any oxygen and unburned hydrocarbons that results -IF- the upstream closed loop process produces too rich a mixture.) More specifically, Downstream O2 sensors are basis of passing or failing the Catalytic Efficiency Monitor software routine that runs continuously in the PCM (monitoring Switch Ratio between Downstream and Upstream O2 Sensor voltages). Switch Ratios (^ and v .45volts) are counted and divided to produce a switch ratio. That ratio > 60% (or 75% depending on exhaust configuration) results in a CAT EFFICIENCY below spec DTC P0420 or P0430 as appropriate.

The OBDII system -on our trucks- maintains a "REAR FUEL TRIM bias", in _ADDITION TO_ Short Term and Long Term fuel trims. I do not know the exact meaning of the numeric percentage results from those two OBDII PIDs, or the actual 'bias' effect they play on injector pulse width. But from monitoring the two PIDs on my truck, I can tell you that they react WHEN the REAR O2 SENSOR voltage goes low (senses oxygen) or very high (senses NO oxygen in exhaust). Based largely on THIS fact, I have tried to replace my rear O2 sensors for the same reasons as the front ones.

Does this answer your question?

For those with Torque Pro, the custom PIDS for "Rear Fuel Trims" are:

Mode/PID: 22163E
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 1 rear O2
Short Name: REARFT1
Min/Max 0/100
Unit: %
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto

Mode/PID: 22163F
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 2 rear O2
Short Name: REARFT2
Min/Max 0/100
Unit: %
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto