Ford F150 2006 Lariat Timing Chain
07-02-2019, 08:17 PM
#1
Ford F150 2006 Lariat Timing Chain
Hi All,
My mechanic says my timing chain is beginning a long decline to needing to be replaced. He said it might make more sense to get a replacement engine than fix the timing chain. I was just curious if you guys also thought the timing chain was beginning to die based on the below video?
When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways.
Cheers
My mechanic says my timing chain is beginning a long decline to needing to be replaced. He said it might make more sense to get a replacement engine than fix the timing chain. I was just curious if you guys also thought the timing chain was beginning to die based on the below video?
When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways.
Cheers
07-02-2019, 08:54 PM
#2
Senior Member
That honestly sounds pretty good. None of that sound is the timing chains. I think most of that sound is injector sound, and maybe a bit of lifters, I don't even really hear the phaser knock. Don't listen to your mechanic. A replacement engine means more money in his pocket than doing the timing job.
If you do the timing yourself using the proper OEM parts, that's $1000 for the parts, and to have a mechanic do it, parts plus labor = $2500 (regular mechanic) to $4000 (at a dealer)
A new engine: $4000-5000 plus labor. You might see $7000-$8000 here.
If you do the timing yourself using the proper OEM parts, that's $1000 for the parts, and to have a mechanic do it, parts plus labor = $2500 (regular mechanic) to $4000 (at a dealer)
A new engine: $4000-5000 plus labor. You might see $7000-$8000 here.
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lordnoak (07-02-2019)
07-02-2019, 09:50 PM
#3
Senior Member
^^^
A lot of "mechanics" push complete engine swaps because it keeps them from having to make critical determinations, and absolves them of the liability when those determinations turn out to be faulty. About 3 years ago I took the '05 in for a right side exh. manifold leak. The problem was obvious because the tick was directly related to throttle pressure and nothing else. I took it into a shop where I know the owner, and thought I trusted the work done inside his building. A couple hours later I get a call telling me I need an engine and they already have a $7000-something estimate drawn up. The owner says his mechanic made the determination, and he has to stand behind his man. I was told it was piston slap. I drove it to another shop and asked them to perform my prescribed repairs without diagnosis or opinion. I obviously had to agree to accept and pay for the repairs whether it fixed the truck or not, and I did. They replaced the manifold (genuine FoMoCo) studs and gasket. Problem solved, I think it was around $650, don't remember for sure but worth it for me not to have to do the job on my garage floor. Real mechanics are getting hard to find. Most newer auto technicians are scanner readers and parts changers, not diagnosticians.
A lot of "mechanics" push complete engine swaps because it keeps them from having to make critical determinations, and absolves them of the liability when those determinations turn out to be faulty. About 3 years ago I took the '05 in for a right side exh. manifold leak. The problem was obvious because the tick was directly related to throttle pressure and nothing else. I took it into a shop where I know the owner, and thought I trusted the work done inside his building. A couple hours later I get a call telling me I need an engine and they already have a $7000-something estimate drawn up. The owner says his mechanic made the determination, and he has to stand behind his man. I was told it was piston slap. I drove it to another shop and asked them to perform my prescribed repairs without diagnosis or opinion. I obviously had to agree to accept and pay for the repairs whether it fixed the truck or not, and I did. They replaced the manifold (genuine FoMoCo) studs and gasket. Problem solved, I think it was around $650, don't remember for sure but worth it for me not to have to do the job on my garage floor. Real mechanics are getting hard to find. Most newer auto technicians are scanner readers and parts changers, not diagnosticians.
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F150Torqued (07-02-2019),
lordnoak (07-02-2019)
07-02-2019, 09:54 PM
#4
That doesn't sound too bad, but it's not great either. Lots of the noise is injectors, but I think you are getting a little bit of chain slap and maybe just a tad of roller follower noise. Not much phasor knock yet either, but it will come. Anyway, for a 2006 it's high time to do the whole timing chain kit, including new Melling oil pump, regardless. And a pair of VCT solenoids too. Mechanically, you're running on fumes and should be proactive about it. It'll be way more expensive to call a tow truck at 3am some day and have some unknown garage replace just the oil pump if it screws the pooch. Just putting the high volume pump into an old, loose engine will prevent or cure a lot of problems too because so much of it is hydraulically actuated.
I had to do small pieces of the replacement over time because of weather and because I needed the truck, so only planned for as much as I could do on long weekends. If you have the luxury of a covered garage and alternate transportation for awhile, you should get everything done while you are in there. Do the VCTs, serp belt, idler pulley bearings, chains, oil pump, all roller followers and lash adjusters, cam phasors, chain guides and tensioners, balancer pulley seal, and head cover gaskets. Coilovers too, and maybe plugs depending how old they are. I'd do the power steering pump at the same time too, and put in a reman steering rack. Change out the power steering hoses. Radiator, thermostat, and lower rad hose too. Check your front axle seals - are they dry? Check the camshaft towers and thrust bearings - any play in them? If so, budget for new heads. Clean the MAF sensor. Change out any crumbling hoses on top or behind the engine. And as long as you have your covvies on, replace absolutely all fluids in the truck.
After cleaning up and swapping out those engine parts, you'll be amazed how smooth the engine will get, and how flat and even the power distribution will be.
I had to do small pieces of the replacement over time because of weather and because I needed the truck, so only planned for as much as I could do on long weekends. If you have the luxury of a covered garage and alternate transportation for awhile, you should get everything done while you are in there. Do the VCTs, serp belt, idler pulley bearings, chains, oil pump, all roller followers and lash adjusters, cam phasors, chain guides and tensioners, balancer pulley seal, and head cover gaskets. Coilovers too, and maybe plugs depending how old they are. I'd do the power steering pump at the same time too, and put in a reman steering rack. Change out the power steering hoses. Radiator, thermostat, and lower rad hose too. Check your front axle seals - are they dry? Check the camshaft towers and thrust bearings - any play in them? If so, budget for new heads. Clean the MAF sensor. Change out any crumbling hoses on top or behind the engine. And as long as you have your covvies on, replace absolutely all fluids in the truck.
After cleaning up and swapping out those engine parts, you'll be amazed how smooth the engine will get, and how flat and even the power distribution will be.
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lordnoak (07-02-2019)
07-03-2019, 07:50 AM
#5
nathan3306
Do you hear a rattle when starting the engine? It usually needs to sit overnight to get the noise. If you hear that rattle, you're loosing tension on the timing chain tensioners. Other than the tensioners or the guides failing, those chains are pretty darn stout. I don't ever remember reading or seeing anyone with a 5.4L 3V "stretched" timing chain. 3.5L ecoboost sure but not the 5.4L.
Is this your trusted mechanic? He/she either doesn't know about these motors or they have no idea what they're doing and want some monies. Perhaps get a second opinion...? I don't hear anything alarming at all with you're engine. They make some noise but it does sound like the passenger side is exhibiting a wee bit more noise compared to the driver's side.... that's common with these motors as the passenger side is usually starved for oil because of the crap oil pump from ford. Now, I'm not telling you to do this but I would do some research in the 5w-30 oil and see what you come up with.
Contortionist is on the right track with replacing a lot of parts while you're already in there but I see no need in replacing a few of those things unless they're having issues.
"When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways."
--That could be a misfire, also common. When was the last time it had some fresh plugs?
Is this your trusted mechanic? He/she either doesn't know about these motors or they have no idea what they're doing and want some monies. Perhaps get a second opinion...? I don't hear anything alarming at all with you're engine. They make some noise but it does sound like the passenger side is exhibiting a wee bit more noise compared to the driver's side.... that's common with these motors as the passenger side is usually starved for oil because of the crap oil pump from ford. Now, I'm not telling you to do this but I would do some research in the 5w-30 oil and see what you come up with.
Contortionist is on the right track with replacing a lot of parts while you're already in there but I see no need in replacing a few of those things unless they're having issues.
"When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways."
--That could be a misfire, also common. When was the last time it had some fresh plugs?
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lordnoak (07-03-2019)
07-03-2019, 07:54 AM
#6
nathan3306
Also, don't feel like you're riding in a ticking time bomb. My motor sounded just like that for YEARS and MANY miles were put on it. I've heard some 5.4 that literally sounded like a rod was about to be thrown thru the hood. Heck, I asked one guy if he did a cummins swap because it sounded so much like a diesel.
Just thought I'd add that little .02
Just thought I'd add that little .02
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lordnoak (07-03-2019)
07-03-2019, 08:57 AM
#7
Do you hear a rattle when starting the engine? It usually needs to sit overnight to get the noise. If you hear that rattle, you're loosing tension on the timing chain tensioners. Other than the tensioners or the guides failing, those chains are pretty darn stout. I don't ever remember reading or seeing anyone with a 5.4L 3V "stretched" timing chain. 3.5L ecoboost sure but not the 5.4L.
Is this your trusted mechanic? He/she either doesn't know about these motors or they have no idea what they're doing and want some monies. Perhaps get a second opinion...? I don't hear anything alarming at all with you're engine. They make some noise but it does sound like the passenger side is exhibiting a wee bit more noise compared to the driver's side.... that's common with these motors as the passenger side is usually starved for oil because of the crap oil pump from ford. Now, I'm not telling you to do this but I would do some research in the 5w-30 oil and see what you come up with.
Contortionist is on the right track with replacing a lot of parts while you're already in there but I see no need in replacing a few of those things unless they're having issues.
"When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways."
--That could be a misfire, also common. When was the last time it had some fresh plugs?
Is this your trusted mechanic? He/she either doesn't know about these motors or they have no idea what they're doing and want some monies. Perhaps get a second opinion...? I don't hear anything alarming at all with you're engine. They make some noise but it does sound like the passenger side is exhibiting a wee bit more noise compared to the driver's side.... that's common with these motors as the passenger side is usually starved for oil because of the crap oil pump from ford. Now, I'm not telling you to do this but I would do some research in the 5w-30 oil and see what you come up with.
Contortionist is on the right track with replacing a lot of parts while you're already in there but I see no need in replacing a few of those things unless they're having issues.
"When the truck idles sometimes I can feel it a little but that's the only symptom I've noticed unless the ticking sounds in the video are giveaways."
--That could be a misfire, also common. When was the last time it had some fresh plugs?
To answer your questions, I do not hear any rattle noise when I start it up. I keep trying to listen for something as I'm starting it in the morning but so far I haven't. I did do a lot of reading online, and I haven't noticed any of the symptoms that others have reported for timing and cam issues which is why I posted that video here. No knocks, no rattling, no check engine lights. The plugs were replaced somewhere in the 100k to 150k mileage range (150k is when I bought it). The last owner said the plugs were replaced and that he was having the truck serviced at a Ford dealership so I'm assuming they were done at 100k, but I can't know for certain.
The symptom, to try and explain a little further, is that it feels like it is on the very start of going into a stall or losing power but then it catches itself almost immediately. It is not at all very noticeable and doesn't happen a lot. The RPMs do not dip dramatically or anything. I only noticed it because I've been trying to understand timing chain issues so I've been paying attention more, and also I had a sensor (power steering sensor according to my mechanic) fail on me a few weeks back that was causing the engine to stall out and lose power so I've been a little "extra" sensitive to it going out. If you have ever experienced the truck stalling out and losing power the symptom would be best described as at the very beginning of that where you can feel the idle starting to go down, but then it doesn't. If that makes sense. If it did make it "down" like when my sensor was broken then the RPMs would begin dropping and then the power goes out as it stalls. I've had other vehicles where the idle goes down, then back up and sometimes close to a stall and that's not really what's happening, at least not yet. This is just a slight hesitation right before I imagine it would start dropping RPMs and stalling.
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07-03-2019, 07:34 PM
#8
Senior Member
That's probably something like O2 sensors, cats going bad, or your throttle body needs cleaning, or your throttle position sensor is going bad.
Just a note:
My truck has had the cam phaser knock at engine speeds under 1000rpm since I bought it in 2009. Its ran perfectly for me, never had a check engine light, I've put nearly 80,000 miles on my truck since I bought it (it had 22,996 miles when I bought it, and now 100,300 miles). I am currently on a 1500 mile trip in Colorado, and just went through Monarch Pass (11,250 feet) with no troubles. I got all the parts to do the timing set on this truck, as well as some other stuff like the newest TPS, updated FPDM (already installed), new radiator hoses, water pump, fan clutch, and improved fuel injectors (the Ford Racing 24lb injectors, will supposedly increase fuel economy and power by about 10%)
Just a note:
My truck has had the cam phaser knock at engine speeds under 1000rpm since I bought it in 2009. Its ran perfectly for me, never had a check engine light, I've put nearly 80,000 miles on my truck since I bought it (it had 22,996 miles when I bought it, and now 100,300 miles). I am currently on a 1500 mile trip in Colorado, and just went through Monarch Pass (11,250 feet) with no troubles. I got all the parts to do the timing set on this truck, as well as some other stuff like the newest TPS, updated FPDM (already installed), new radiator hoses, water pump, fan clutch, and improved fuel injectors (the Ford Racing 24lb injectors, will supposedly increase fuel economy and power by about 10%)
Last edited by ShirBlackspots; 07-03-2019 at 07:36 PM.
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lordnoak (07-04-2019)
07-04-2019, 10:12 AM
#9
Senior Member
Your engine doesn't sound too bad at all.
First and easiest thing to check would be the FPDM - fuel pump driver module - located on the frame rail above the axle (and spare tire) on the driver's side. Back side corrodes and tends to cause loss of power/no start symptoms.
New one mounts with supplied standoffs to halt/impede the corrosion process. You could do a quick test by picking up a new one and just disconnect the old one without unbolting it, connect the new one, and take it for a test drive. It has a positive lock on the connector which will allow you to drive with it 'hanging'.
First and easiest thing to check would be the FPDM - fuel pump driver module - located on the frame rail above the axle (and spare tire) on the driver's side. Back side corrodes and tends to cause loss of power/no start symptoms.
New one mounts with supplied standoffs to halt/impede the corrosion process. You could do a quick test by picking up a new one and just disconnect the old one without unbolting it, connect the new one, and take it for a test drive. It has a positive lock on the connector which will allow you to drive with it 'hanging'.
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lordnoak (07-04-2019)
