The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
12-27-2017, 09:28 AM
#3401
Here's why I'd go with the OEM. Skip to 8:45 to put you just before what he finds is the failure. Unfortunately he doesn't say how many miles were on the replacement parts but, didn't sound like there was a lot:
Video is by FordTechMakuloco:
Video is by FordTechMakuloco:
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Fordjunkync (01-09-2018)
12-27-2017, 06:23 PM
#3402
All good points for sure... and you've right, most people on the forums are most likely dealing with worn-out and/or failed OEM parts. I've read some posts that had thier phasers rattling at less than 50k miles. Man that would **** me off if I bought new, but it is what it is.. I'm considering myself extremely lucky if mine have never been replaced and I'm now pushing 170k. I'll chock this up as simple worn parts feeling thier age.
My biggest dilemma is whether to replace now as inexpensive as I can (with decent quality parts), before a catastrophic failure happens, OR do I continue letting it rattle, cross my fingers and rebuild the whole engine later on? I've only read about a few nasty breakdowns, but those people installed... you guessed it... cheaper aftermarket parts! So what do you believe? Was it the parts, or the skill level of Backyard-Joe mechanic, or both?
If it was truly bad cheaper-parts, then wouldn't you see far more negative reviews of those parts instead of a couple? I rely heavily on reviews before I buy parts like this (thus the reason I'm here asking those of you that have done the job and have first-hand results). Sure, I'd buy OEM if I could.. no question, but wow... that price tag...
I'm debating whether it's counter-productive to install new (expensive) parts on a 170k engine knowing full well it needs to be rebuilt soon. I've also considered finding another complete (lower mileage) engine, but then I simply inherit someone else's problem most likely.
I'm also wondering though... does FORD actually MAKE the timing parts themselves, (i.e... have thier own production lines with machinists/CNC's making these parts)... OR, considering how old some of our trucks are... are ALL the parts now being out-sourced and made by the lowest bidder? In other words.. would the REAL manufacturer please stand up?
I've worked in production manufacturing, so I understand a bit of it. Most large companies outsource their parts. It's simple business economics... get the part made by the lowest bidder.
So who really makes the expensive OEM parts and who makes the $130 ones?
What would you guys do on a 170k engine that just started to rattle?
My truck runs excellent other than the other infamous oil leak problem at the oil filter adapter.. I have the new gasket for that I plan to replace in the spring.
I also read about the 5w-30 oil. I have always used Motorcraft 5W-20 Synthetic and the FL820S Motorcraft filter... ALWAYS. I might give the 5-30 a try at the next change. I go 5000 between changes due to being synthetic instead of Dino-oil. In fact, my oil is barely dirty at 5k. This is the first vehicle I've ever used synthetic in and I must say, I'm impressed.
Thanks for the replies.. I love to read them all... good or bad!
My biggest dilemma is whether to replace now as inexpensive as I can (with decent quality parts), before a catastrophic failure happens, OR do I continue letting it rattle, cross my fingers and rebuild the whole engine later on? I've only read about a few nasty breakdowns, but those people installed... you guessed it... cheaper aftermarket parts! So what do you believe? Was it the parts, or the skill level of Backyard-Joe mechanic, or both?
If it was truly bad cheaper-parts, then wouldn't you see far more negative reviews of those parts instead of a couple? I rely heavily on reviews before I buy parts like this (thus the reason I'm here asking those of you that have done the job and have first-hand results). Sure, I'd buy OEM if I could.. no question, but wow... that price tag...
I'm debating whether it's counter-productive to install new (expensive) parts on a 170k engine knowing full well it needs to be rebuilt soon. I've also considered finding another complete (lower mileage) engine, but then I simply inherit someone else's problem most likely.
I'm also wondering though... does FORD actually MAKE the timing parts themselves, (i.e... have thier own production lines with machinists/CNC's making these parts)... OR, considering how old some of our trucks are... are ALL the parts now being out-sourced and made by the lowest bidder? In other words.. would the REAL manufacturer please stand up?
I've worked in production manufacturing, so I understand a bit of it. Most large companies outsource their parts. It's simple business economics... get the part made by the lowest bidder.
So who really makes the expensive OEM parts and who makes the $130 ones?
What would you guys do on a 170k engine that just started to rattle?
My truck runs excellent other than the other infamous oil leak problem at the oil filter adapter.. I have the new gasket for that I plan to replace in the spring.
I also read about the 5w-30 oil. I have always used Motorcraft 5W-20 Synthetic and the FL820S Motorcraft filter... ALWAYS. I might give the 5-30 a try at the next change. I go 5000 between changes due to being synthetic instead of Dino-oil. In fact, my oil is barely dirty at 5k. This is the first vehicle I've ever used synthetic in and I must say, I'm impressed.
Thanks for the replies.. I love to read them all... good or bad!
01-09-2018, 01:49 PM
#3404
Hadnt seen this particular video of his till now, thanks for posting.
.
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01-12-2018, 09:42 PM
#3405
I'm so glad to have discovered this excellent and informative thread! Thanks to the OP and to all contributors in general, but especially to those few that have devoted a significant amount of time in the interest of helping others work through their issues. Kudos to you all!
As it turns out, I'm yet another statistic with an apparent 5.4 valve train issue. After perusing this thread and others, and watching video after video, particularly those from Makuloco, I've concluded that I must have a bad roller follower. The specific issue I'm having is a ticking that's there at startup and persists at all temps and RPM's. It seems to be emanating from the passenger side. I've not completely ruled out the exhaust manifold as the source, but a (less than thorough) visual inspection didn't reveal any cracks in the manifold or any noticeable broken studs. The fact that the ticking does not dissipate when the engine warms removes some suspicion from the manifold.
When I first noticed the ticking I remember it being quieter than it is now. One day on startup it was noticeably louder. About a half mile later, while stopped at a light, I heard a sharp noise like something internal to the engine broke, then the ticking stopped immediately. A day or two later the ticking returned, this time louder than before.
Once I realized what the problem most likely is I parked it to mitigate damage to the cam, though I realize a lobe may already be damaged to the point of needing replacement. When I was driving it I wasn't able to notice any discernible change in performance. The only hint of a problem has been the ticking noise.
Before I pop the valve cover I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on this. Any and all opinions and recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I've only recently become a hands-on DIY'er, so any work of this nature is being done with no prior experience. Thanks to all the detail found within this thread and elsewhere, however, I think I can get 'er done myself. That doesn't mean I won't ask a lot of dumb questions during the process.
Here's what my engine sounds like:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/afqYqGrKtDedII4e2
2010 F150 Screw just south of 170k
As it turns out, I'm yet another statistic with an apparent 5.4 valve train issue. After perusing this thread and others, and watching video after video, particularly those from Makuloco, I've concluded that I must have a bad roller follower. The specific issue I'm having is a ticking that's there at startup and persists at all temps and RPM's. It seems to be emanating from the passenger side. I've not completely ruled out the exhaust manifold as the source, but a (less than thorough) visual inspection didn't reveal any cracks in the manifold or any noticeable broken studs. The fact that the ticking does not dissipate when the engine warms removes some suspicion from the manifold.
When I first noticed the ticking I remember it being quieter than it is now. One day on startup it was noticeably louder. About a half mile later, while stopped at a light, I heard a sharp noise like something internal to the engine broke, then the ticking stopped immediately. A day or two later the ticking returned, this time louder than before.
Once I realized what the problem most likely is I parked it to mitigate damage to the cam, though I realize a lobe may already be damaged to the point of needing replacement. When I was driving it I wasn't able to notice any discernible change in performance. The only hint of a problem has been the ticking noise.
Before I pop the valve cover I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on this. Any and all opinions and recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I've only recently become a hands-on DIY'er, so any work of this nature is being done with no prior experience. Thanks to all the detail found within this thread and elsewhere, however, I think I can get 'er done myself. That doesn't mean I won't ask a lot of dumb questions during the process.
Here's what my engine sounds like:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/afqYqGrKtDedII4e2
2010 F150 Screw just south of 170k
01-13-2018, 07:59 AM
#3406
Something else came to mind that merits mentioning. The ticking started shortly after I had an oil change done. My first thought when it began ticking was that they didn't refill to capacity, so I pulled the dipstick but it read full. If they filled with an incorrect oil weight could that cause the ticking? Taking it a step further, what are the chances that the oil filter is bad and is causing low pressure which, in turn, is allowing metal-to-metal?
Correlation or coincidence... Thoughts?
Correlation or coincidence... Thoughts?
01-13-2018, 09:26 AM
#3407
LightningRod
I doubt they put oil thinner than 0w20 in it. And I don't suspect oil filter - or oil pressure. Even thin 0w20 oil will pump up 60-70 lbs pressure at cold startup.
At engine shutdown, valve springs, on valves that are 'open', hold constant pressure on lash adjusters. As they age/wear, they will slowly leak down when oil is hot / thin. Especially if the engine is off for hours (over night). Accumulation of oil film and contaminates build up in this 'collapsed' state and begin to interfere with their ability to expand smoothly to take up the slack between adjuster / roller follower / cam lobe / valve stem. -- Result is, the classic 'Tick'.
I will probably get some pushback on this, but my suggestion would be to try a thorough engine flush. Put in a quart of strong engine flush when hot at the end of a daily drive cycle and run it for some time before shutdown (Instructions will say 5-10 minutes. I actually run mine more like 30 minutes or lite driving the last ~20 miles of the day). Shut of and let sit overnight - then warm up 5-10 minutes next day, drain and do your oil/filter change. A couple of these, running Marvel Mystery oil between might quiet your 'tick'.
But the real fix is replacing lash adjusters and checking roller bearings in roller followers. At 170k, you are nearing the natural life of steel chains / guides / phasers. When that has to be done, I am a believer that ALL roller/followers AND lash adjusters should be replaced at the same time.
At engine shutdown, valve springs, on valves that are 'open', hold constant pressure on lash adjusters. As they age/wear, they will slowly leak down when oil is hot / thin. Especially if the engine is off for hours (over night). Accumulation of oil film and contaminates build up in this 'collapsed' state and begin to interfere with their ability to expand smoothly to take up the slack between adjuster / roller follower / cam lobe / valve stem. -- Result is, the classic 'Tick'.
I will probably get some pushback on this, but my suggestion would be to try a thorough engine flush. Put in a quart of strong engine flush when hot at the end of a daily drive cycle and run it for some time before shutdown (Instructions will say 5-10 minutes. I actually run mine more like 30 minutes or lite driving the last ~20 miles of the day). Shut of and let sit overnight - then warm up 5-10 minutes next day, drain and do your oil/filter change. A couple of these, running Marvel Mystery oil between might quiet your 'tick'.
But the real fix is replacing lash adjusters and checking roller bearings in roller followers. At 170k, you are nearing the natural life of steel chains / guides / phasers. When that has to be done, I am a believer that ALL roller/followers AND lash adjusters should be replaced at the same time.
Last edited by F150Torqued; 01-13-2018 at 09:29 AM. Reason: -stupid spelling
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König (01-15-2018)
01-14-2018, 06:43 PM
#3408
3L3Z-6020-FA Timing Cover Gasket (Right)
3L3Z-6020-EA Timing Cover Gasket (Center)
3L3Z-6020-DA Timing Cover Gasket (Left)
(Two) 5L3Z-6268-A Timing Chains
1L3Z-6L266-AA Right Timing Chain Tensioner w/Retaining Clip 1L3Z-6P250-AA
XL1Z-6L266-AA Left Timing Chain Tensioner w/Retaining Clip 1L3Z-6P250-AA
XW4Z-6700-AA Crankshaft Front Seal
XW1Z-12A227-AC Crankshaft Position Trigger Wheel
F85Z-6K255-AA Right Timing Chain Tensioner Arm
F85Z-6M274-AA Left Timing Chain Tensioner Arm
4L3Z-6M256-AA Right Timing Chain Guide
2L1Z-6K297-AA Left Timing Chain Guide
XL3Z-6306-AA Crankshaft Timing Drive Gear Sprocket
01-15-2018, 09:48 AM
#3409
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE KS
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Replaced timing components - no dice
Hey everyone, I could use some help. I used this guide and a several videos all over the internet to tackle the jobs of replacing the timing components last week. I replaced the phasers, chains, guides, tensioners, vct solenoids, and all the gaskets. When I opened mine up I found that the lh chain guide had broken and sheared one of the bolts off and so the chain was very lax.
After replacing all the components I then dropped the oil pan and removed the fragments and cleaned out the pickup tube. I placed the pieces together to make sure I had retrieved them all. I did notice some marring from the chain to the front cover, and a small amount to the reluctor ring. I took my time putting everything back together and started it up and everything sounded good for about 5 minutes. Now it sounds like it's going to die, extremely rough idle and is giving me a P2196 code - O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1, stuck rich. I've cleared and run the truck again a few times and keep only receiving that code - no others at the time. I've checked the harness and see no issues, the valve cover is tight, I don't see any vacuum leaks (although I plan to check a bit more in depth). Any ideas what would cause that new code to show up now because I am running out of ideas.
After replacing all the components I then dropped the oil pan and removed the fragments and cleaned out the pickup tube. I placed the pieces together to make sure I had retrieved them all. I did notice some marring from the chain to the front cover, and a small amount to the reluctor ring. I took my time putting everything back together and started it up and everything sounded good for about 5 minutes. Now it sounds like it's going to die, extremely rough idle and is giving me a P2196 code - O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1, stuck rich. I've cleared and run the truck again a few times and keep only receiving that code - no others at the time. I've checked the harness and see no issues, the valve cover is tight, I don't see any vacuum leaks (although I plan to check a bit more in depth). Any ideas what would cause that new code to show up now because I am running out of ideas.
01-15-2018, 07:45 PM
#3410
Hey everyone, I could use some help. I used this guide and a several videos all over the internet to tackle the jobs of replacing the timing components last week. I replaced the phasers, chains, guides, tensioners, vct solenoids, and all the gaskets. When I opened mine up I found that the lh chain guide had broken and sheared one of the bolts off and so the chain was very lax.
After replacing all the components I then dropped the oil pan and removed the fragments and cleaned out the pickup tube. I placed the pieces together to make sure I had retrieved them all. I did notice some marring from the chain to the front cover, and a small amount to the reluctor ring. I took my time putting everything back together and started it up and everything sounded good for about 5 minutes. Now it sounds like it's going to die, extremely rough idle and is giving me a P2196 code - O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1, stuck rich. I've cleared and run the truck again a few times and keep only receiving that code - no others at the time. I've checked the harness and see no issues, the valve cover is tight, I don't see any vacuum leaks (although I plan to check a bit more in depth). Any ideas what would cause that new code to show up now because I am running out of ideas.
After replacing all the components I then dropped the oil pan and removed the fragments and cleaned out the pickup tube. I placed the pieces together to make sure I had retrieved them all. I did notice some marring from the chain to the front cover, and a small amount to the reluctor ring. I took my time putting everything back together and started it up and everything sounded good for about 5 minutes. Now it sounds like it's going to die, extremely rough idle and is giving me a P2196 code - O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1, stuck rich. I've cleared and run the truck again a few times and keep only receiving that code - no others at the time. I've checked the harness and see no issues, the valve cover is tight, I don't see any vacuum leaks (although I plan to check a bit more in depth). Any ideas what would cause that new code to show up now because I am running out of ideas.
P2196 - O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich - Bank 1, Sensor 1
<TABLE border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none" vAlign=top align=left>Possible Causes: </TD><TD style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none" vAlign=top colSpan=4 align=left>Electrical:
Short to VPWR in the harness or HO2S
Water in the harness connector
Open/shorted HO2S circuit
Corrosion or incorrect harness connections
Damaged HO2S
Damaged powertrain control module (PCM)
Fuel System:
Excessive fuel pressure
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors
Leaking fuel pressure regulator
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
Vapor recovery system
Induction System:
Air leaks after the mass air flow (MAF) sensor
Vacuum leaks
PCV system
Improperly seated engine oil dipstick
EGR System:
Leaking gasket
Stuck EGR valve
Leaking diaphragm or EVR
Base Engine:
Oil overfill
Camshaft timing
Cylinder compression
Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2S(s)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>