The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
06-22-2017, 12:08 PM
#3131
Moderator
Not to high jack the discussion and cool things you guys are doing with Torque but I do have a quick question WRT to phaser knock and timing.
...168k, '05, 5.4, chain and tension replaced at 100k by previous owner and now I'm getting the famous diesel knock and more ticking. However, it is very sporadic and comes and goes. If I'm idling and its knocking, I do a quick shut down and start up and its gone, typically will come back at 50mph so far. When there is no knock, I get very little ticking, when the knock comes I get codes like crazy, (P0022, over timing bank 2; 340- Camshaft position sensor Bank 1; P345; P349. And now I'm getting Rich Bank 1 and 2 and Misfires codes on Cylinder 5.
What in the world would make this so intermittent that a simple shut down and turn on makes it go away? Sensor? Clogged oil port? Bad seal?. I've run MC filter and oil only and so did the previous owner.
...168k, '05, 5.4, chain and tension replaced at 100k by previous owner and now I'm getting the famous diesel knock and more ticking. However, it is very sporadic and comes and goes. If I'm idling and its knocking, I do a quick shut down and start up and its gone, typically will come back at 50mph so far. When there is no knock, I get very little ticking, when the knock comes I get codes like crazy, (P0022, over timing bank 2; 340- Camshaft position sensor Bank 1; P345; P349. And now I'm getting Rich Bank 1 and 2 and Misfires codes on Cylinder 5.
What in the world would make this so intermittent that a simple shut down and turn on makes it go away? Sensor? Clogged oil port? Bad seal?. I've run MC filter and oil only and so did the previous owner.
06-22-2017, 02:12 PM
#3132
ahh dang. That would be zero fun. I don't think the guides broke previously though, it was done for preventative measures previously.
Or maybe I just recently broke one? But if that was the case, it doesn't explain why it would be intermittent. I would assume it would be constant in the event of broken guide or tensioner pieces.
Or maybe I just recently broke one? But if that was the case, it doesn't explain why it would be intermittent. I would assume it would be constant in the event of broken guide or tensioner pieces.
06-22-2017, 02:16 PM
#3133
Moderator
Yeah and theres only a couple ways to find out if you have a broken guide. The easiest is probably to drop the oil pan. It could be intermittent because when you shut if off and the oil pump stops then the pieces can fall back to the bottom of the pan. When you run it again they get sucked back up to the pickup tube and you lose oil pressure. That would be my guess. You could get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and check to see if the hot idle oil pressure is low when the knock begins? The phaser sound is very distinct once you know it. Its more of a clack than a knock or tick IMO.
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F150Torqued (06-22-2017)
06-23-2017, 04:26 PM
#3134
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PLEASE HELP!!!!! Cannot figure out the fix
Sorry for the lengthy post this is a latch ditch effort for help..
Here's the background info:
2005 F150 5.4 123,000 miles. Extremely clean 1 owner. Up to date on all maintenance and oil changes with 5w20.
Problems:
Passenger side timing chain has slight rattle/chain slap that you can hear in a drive through
P0345 and P0349 camshaft position sensor A malfuction bank 2.
Sometimes stalls at red lights
2 Months Ago:
Engine light came on. Still drove fine, no misfires or issues of any kind. I could turn the light off and it wouldn't come back for days or weeks at a time. Light only came on when engine was hot.
1 Month Ago:
Engine stalled at a red light. Didn't bog down or try to stay running just shut off instantly. Same check engine lights again.
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with aftermarket**
Engine light gradually came on more often and began stalling at stops more often. I considered just selling the truck but it came on so often that I wouldn't have been able to sell it.
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Still no change
1 Week Ago:
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with OEM**
Thought I fixed the problem. Light stayed off driving home from work and didn't stall on me.
The next day the light came back on but when I turned it off it stayed off a little longer than before
HAS NOT STALLED SINCE CHANGING THE OEM VCT SOLENOID
6 Days Ago:
**Changed driver side cam phaser with Dorman updated version**
Again thought the problem was fixed until the light came back on the following day
(The mechanic mentioned several times about how clean and well taken care of the engine looked from what he could see. No sludge of any kind)
5 Days Ago:
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Tried another cam sensor brand just in case that was the issue but there was no change.
So it's now been a week since the truck has stalled at all but the light still comes on every time I drive it.
What I can't figure out is how the problem got so bad a couple weeks ago that I couldn't even sell the truck to anyone without it stalling on them, and now it seems like the problem is half fixed. No more stalling but the light still comes on.
Could this be due to the timing chain having slack on the passenger side?
Maybe a tensioner or chain guide?
Maybe the screen in the VCT valve body is plugged?
Maybe timing is a tooth off, but then I would think that it would run like crap.
Am I losing oil pressure somehow?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Here's the background info:
2005 F150 5.4 123,000 miles. Extremely clean 1 owner. Up to date on all maintenance and oil changes with 5w20.
Problems:
Passenger side timing chain has slight rattle/chain slap that you can hear in a drive through
P0345 and P0349 camshaft position sensor A malfuction bank 2.
Sometimes stalls at red lights
2 Months Ago:
Engine light came on. Still drove fine, no misfires or issues of any kind. I could turn the light off and it wouldn't come back for days or weeks at a time. Light only came on when engine was hot.
1 Month Ago:
Engine stalled at a red light. Didn't bog down or try to stay running just shut off instantly. Same check engine lights again.
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with aftermarket**
Engine light gradually came on more often and began stalling at stops more often. I considered just selling the truck but it came on so often that I wouldn't have been able to sell it.
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Still no change
1 Week Ago:
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with OEM**
Thought I fixed the problem. Light stayed off driving home from work and didn't stall on me.
The next day the light came back on but when I turned it off it stayed off a little longer than before
HAS NOT STALLED SINCE CHANGING THE OEM VCT SOLENOID
6 Days Ago:
**Changed driver side cam phaser with Dorman updated version**
Again thought the problem was fixed until the light came back on the following day
(The mechanic mentioned several times about how clean and well taken care of the engine looked from what he could see. No sludge of any kind)
5 Days Ago:
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Tried another cam sensor brand just in case that was the issue but there was no change.
So it's now been a week since the truck has stalled at all but the light still comes on every time I drive it.
What I can't figure out is how the problem got so bad a couple weeks ago that I couldn't even sell the truck to anyone without it stalling on them, and now it seems like the problem is half fixed. No more stalling but the light still comes on.
Could this be due to the timing chain having slack on the passenger side?
Maybe a tensioner or chain guide?
Maybe the screen in the VCT valve body is plugged?
Maybe timing is a tooth off, but then I would think that it would run like crap.
Am I losing oil pressure somehow?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
06-23-2017, 04:35 PM
#3135
Temperature wise, with my tuner on 93octane in performance mode & pulling a open car trailer with a 3000lb load driving about a 1-1.5 hours my engine temperature increased roughly 10+degs or so compared to using the tow mode & 87octane loaded.
My cylinder head normally reads roughly 10deg higher than the engine coolant temperature & it followed suit. I also noticed the knock sensor tolerance reading had also increased.
Using E85 in performance mode the knock sensor stays in the range compared to when I'm not pulling a load & the torque seems roughly the same as it does on 93octane in performance mode. I know that you get extra cooling using E85 by injecting more fuel.
I'm running taller tires & the torque is very noticeable in performance mode, I also don't rpm over 3000.
.
My cylinder head normally reads roughly 10deg higher than the engine coolant temperature & it followed suit. I also noticed the knock sensor tolerance reading had also increased.
Using E85 in performance mode the knock sensor stays in the range compared to when I'm not pulling a load & the torque seems roughly the same as it does on 93octane in performance mode. I know that you get extra cooling using E85 by injecting more fuel.
I'm running taller tires & the torque is very noticeable in performance mode, I also don't rpm over 3000.
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; 06-23-2017 at 05:00 PM.
06-23-2017, 04:36 PM
#3136
Moderator
Sorry for the lengthy post this is a latch ditch effort for help..
Here's the background info:
2005 F150 5.4 123,000 miles. Extremely clean 1 owner. Up to date on all maintenance and oil changes with 5w20.
Problems:
Passenger side timing chain has slight rattle/chain slap that you can hear in a drive through
P0345 and P0349 camshaft position sensor A malfuction bank 2.
Sometimes stalls at red lights
2 Months Ago:
Engine light came on. Still drove fine, no misfires or issues of any kind. I could turn the light off and it wouldn't come back for days or weeks at a time. Light only came on when engine was hot.
1 Month Ago:
Engine stalled at a red light. Didn't bog down or try to stay running just shut off instantly. Same check engine lights again.
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with aftermarket**
Engine light gradually came on more often and began stalling at stops more often. I considered just selling the truck but it came on so often that I wouldn't have been able to sell it.
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Still no change
1 Week Ago:
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with OEM**
Thought I fixed the problem. Light stayed off driving home from work and didn't stall on me.
The next day the light came back on but when I turned it off it stayed off a little longer than before
HAS NOT STALLED SINCE CHANGING THE OEM VCT SOLENOID
6 Days Ago:
**Changed driver side cam phaser with Dorman updated version**
Again thought the problem was fixed until the light came back on the following day
(The mechanic mentioned several times about how clean and well taken care of the engine looked from what he could see. No sludge of any kind)
5 Days Ago:
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Tried another cam sensor brand just in case that was the issue but there was no change.
So it's now been a week since the truck has stalled at all but the light still comes on every time I drive it.
What I can't figure out is how the problem got so bad a couple weeks ago that I couldn't even sell the truck to anyone without it stalling on them, and now it seems like the problem is half fixed. No more stalling but the light still comes on.
Could this be due to the timing chain having slack on the passenger side?
Maybe a tensioner or chain guide?
Maybe the screen in the VCT valve body is plugged?
Maybe timing is a tooth off, but then I would think that it would run like crap.
Am I losing oil pressure somehow?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Here's the background info:
2005 F150 5.4 123,000 miles. Extremely clean 1 owner. Up to date on all maintenance and oil changes with 5w20.
Problems:
Passenger side timing chain has slight rattle/chain slap that you can hear in a drive through
P0345 and P0349 camshaft position sensor A malfuction bank 2.
Sometimes stalls at red lights
2 Months Ago:
Engine light came on. Still drove fine, no misfires or issues of any kind. I could turn the light off and it wouldn't come back for days or weeks at a time. Light only came on when engine was hot.
1 Month Ago:
Engine stalled at a red light. Didn't bog down or try to stay running just shut off instantly. Same check engine lights again.
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with aftermarket**
Engine light gradually came on more often and began stalling at stops more often. I considered just selling the truck but it came on so often that I wouldn't have been able to sell it.
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Still no change
1 Week Ago:
**Changed VCT solenoid on driver side with OEM**
Thought I fixed the problem. Light stayed off driving home from work and didn't stall on me.
The next day the light came back on but when I turned it off it stayed off a little longer than before
HAS NOT STALLED SINCE CHANGING THE OEM VCT SOLENOID
6 Days Ago:
**Changed driver side cam phaser with Dorman updated version**
Again thought the problem was fixed until the light came back on the following day
(The mechanic mentioned several times about how clean and well taken care of the engine looked from what he could see. No sludge of any kind)
5 Days Ago:
**Changed cam sensor on driver side with aftermarket**
Tried another cam sensor brand just in case that was the issue but there was no change.
So it's now been a week since the truck has stalled at all but the light still comes on every time I drive it.
What I can't figure out is how the problem got so bad a couple weeks ago that I couldn't even sell the truck to anyone without it stalling on them, and now it seems like the problem is half fixed. No more stalling but the light still comes on.
Could this be due to the timing chain having slack on the passenger side?
Maybe a tensioner or chain guide?
Maybe the screen in the VCT valve body is plugged?
Maybe timing is a tooth off, but then I would think that it would run like crap.
Am I losing oil pressure somehow?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
06-24-2017, 09:59 PM
#3137
what do you mean by "purge solenoids"? is that different from the VCT solenoid?
06-26-2017, 07:50 PM
#3138
Sorry to bring up this old post,, new here.
I've tried reading a bunch of what's been put in here but it's all very overwhelming and had a question, I noticed at the beginning of this post that Dorman is mentioned and seems to be used for phasers, I'm curious to know how they have worked out,, All I hear every where I've surfed is how much one should stick with the OEM FOMOCO phasers and stay well clear of aftermarket.
Great write up BTW I intend to use it in the coming weeks to replace phasers, VCT selenoids and timing kit
Parts I'm using are new aftermarket seal and gaskets (valve and timing covers)
OEM phasers and VCT selenoids ( Ebay)
Cloyes timing kit (RockAuto)
All of this is costing me about $1100 CAD ( shipping and duty fees included) for parts ordered from south of the border, here in Canada I'd be looking close to double that amount.
I appreciate all answers to my query and I hope hashing up this old thread was OK,.
Mike
I've tried reading a bunch of what's been put in here but it's all very overwhelming and had a question, I noticed at the beginning of this post that Dorman is mentioned and seems to be used for phasers, I'm curious to know how they have worked out,, All I hear every where I've surfed is how much one should stick with the OEM FOMOCO phasers and stay well clear of aftermarket.
Great write up BTW I intend to use it in the coming weeks to replace phasers, VCT selenoids and timing kit
Parts I'm using are new aftermarket seal and gaskets (valve and timing covers)
OEM phasers and VCT selenoids ( Ebay)
Cloyes timing kit (RockAuto)
All of this is costing me about $1100 CAD ( shipping and duty fees included) for parts ordered from south of the border, here in Canada I'd be looking close to double that amount.
I appreciate all answers to my query and I hope hashing up this old thread was OK,.
Mike
06-27-2017, 06:12 AM
#3139
I noticed at the beginning of this post that Dorman is mentioned and seems to be used for phasers, I'm curious to know how they have worked out,, All I hear every where I've surfed is how much one should stick with the OEM FOMOCO phasers and stay well clear of aftermarket.
I appreciate all answers to my query and I hope hashing up this old thread was OK,.
Mike
I appreciate all answers to my query and I hope hashing up this old thread was OK,.
Mike
Hi Mike.
Dorman has an unbelievably high fail rate and has failed on most trucks within a few hundred miles. I have bought a few trucks that the phasers had been changed and Dorman's used and they had failed before 1000 miles had been out on them.
Only way I would stick with Dorman was if you were locking them out, as you would reuse the failed phaser anyways, while I disagree with locking out the phasers , I will mention that option at the very least.
Mike
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rmortime (06-27-2017)