The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
05-04-2017, 09:55 PM
#3081
2005 F150 Lariat 4x4
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Lakewood, Co
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p0345 p0349 codes
Hey guys, read this thread a while back when I had my first phaser issue. I've since replaced the cam position sensors, VCT solenoids, the bank 2 phaser (which got out of time and I had to have it tested. It was advanced and I timed retarded it two teeth). Truck runs very well (or maybe I think it does because it ran like crap for a while); however, I'm still showing codes P0349 and P0345 and they're my only codes. When in drive or reverse, the truck is buttery smooth but has a little rumbling to it when in neutral. Normal acceleration is smooth and fairly quiet unless I floor it and get to around 4k RPM there's a lot of engine noise which sounds like when the phaser first went bad (the phasers are working fine FYI). Is it possible my vehicle is still advanced a tooth or am I getting into lash adjuster territory? I appreciate any help.
05-04-2017, 10:56 PM
#3082
LightningRod
The DTC descriptions published for P0345 and P0349 are worded STUPID and horribly misleading. They almost always send troubleshooters off on a rabbit trail looking for cam sensor or wiring (circuit) problems. Off a tooth on either crank or phaser sprocket will produce those codes. Since you have had that trouble - and you have moved it ????, I'm betting it is still not correct.
The only way I know to verify cam chain timing without removing the front cover (A real PITA) is scope the CPS signals for synchronization. But, if you have an Android device and installed Torque Pro on, the custom PIDs for monitoring cam retard / advance operation might be able to determine if a cam is off a tooth. I would think there would be Cam Error on that cam when Zero Retard is being requested. The PIDs and descriptions are listed in this post:
https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...4/#post5133357
Last edited by F150Torqued; 05-04-2017 at 10:58 PM.
05-09-2017, 12:40 PM
#3083
I just picked up a pretty clean 2005. Its at ~180K miles but has service records and, other than what I thought was going to be a straight forward 'phaser' replacement, is in good shape.
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
05-09-2017, 12:44 PM
#3084
Senior Member
I just picked up a pretty clean 2005. Its at ~180K miles but has service records and, other than what I thought was going to be a straight forward 'phaser' replacement, is in good shape.
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
05-09-2017, 03:49 PM
#3085
Its doing the diesel sound when warmed up. Pretty certain that the work is needed. If i tear into it I want to replace everything, including new oil pump.
I'm trying to figure out the best way to make sure the engine is otherwise sound to where once this job is complete I can be relatively sure that it will not blow up 10 minutes later. lol
Obviously nothing is a given on a 180K mile drivetrain. This thing feels really nice on freeway, didn't really notice an issue until driving around town and hearing the 'diesel' sounds. Would love to get it fixed up and see how far I can take it.
I'm trying to figure out the best way to make sure the engine is otherwise sound to where once this job is complete I can be relatively sure that it will not blow up 10 minutes later. lol
Obviously nothing is a given on a 180K mile drivetrain. This thing feels really nice on freeway, didn't really notice an issue until driving around town and hearing the 'diesel' sounds. Would love to get it fixed up and see how far I can take it.
Last edited by 2014_XL_4x4; 05-09-2017 at 04:43 PM.
05-10-2017, 08:28 AM
#3086
I just picked up a pretty clean 2005. Its at ~180K miles but has service records and, other than what I thought was going to be a straight forward 'phaser' replacement, is in good shape.
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
Digging into this thread has me worried that I might be chasing more issues. I don't mind putting money and time into Phaser/Timing fix but would like to protect myself as much as possible.
From what I've read thrust bearings can be a major contributor to these issues. In my mind its not worth attempting the fix if the thrust bearings are showing problems. At that point I'd consider a new reman engine. Looks like a bear to perform in an expedition.
I'd like to confirm that bearings are in good shape before moving forward.
#1. Send off oil for testing for bearing metal contaminates.
#2. Oil pressure test.
#3. Drop pan and clean out pickup, look for metal.
#4. Check play in crank while pan is dropped?
**Does anyone have procedures t do this with engine in vehicle?
Am I on the right approach here? Anything else I can do to ensure the rest of the engine is healthy enough to justify the phaser/timing fixes?
If your thrust bearings are bad, you will more then likely see whats left of them in the pan.
In completely objectivity, I would not replace with a remanufactured at 180k unless there was a hole in the block.
Sending oil in for testing seems like a waste considering you just bought it and have no initial comparison to hold it up to.
If you search around, You will find that some claim that trust bearings were bad from day of build, and when replacing phasers, etc, they didn't touch bearings. A short time later, phasers are shot again.
Makes sense doesn't it? Your top end is starving for top end pressure because oil is puking out at the bottom.
I read of guys that just make a point of changing thrust bearings along with the rest and have no issues after that fact. You have the pan off anyways as you are more then likely removing broken guide plastic from it, and changing the oil pump. That is the time to do it. Its all right there.
Of course if you are going to change main bearings along with the trust bearings, you will want to remove motor. Supposedly there is a one piece thrust bearing you could use that will alleviate this ever happening again. Imo, its still cheaper to do this then to go with a re-manufactured. ( obviously replace rear main seal when its out )
Mike
Last edited by Michael Johanson; 05-10-2017 at 08:53 AM.
05-10-2017, 09:21 AM
#3087
This is a copy paste from a mechanic on a forum talking about lawsuits for the Ford.
What he says is legitimate, though his spelling leaves a lot to be desired..
Don't know if y'all would like some south GEORGIA information from a high school drop out at that but been doing this type work for twenty five years now. I've done three of these 5.4 3 valve motor's problems start with trust bearing falling out letting crank shaft to walk in block causinh oil pressure to drop making timming to advance and retard making motor sound like a diesel and it moves chain back and forth breaking chain Gide and so on any way Chang thrust bearing r&r all in front cover and all be good well three times so far for me hope this helps somewhat if any
What he says is legitimate, though his spelling leaves a lot to be desired..
Don't know if y'all would like some south GEORGIA information from a high school drop out at that but been doing this type work for twenty five years now. I've done three of these 5.4 3 valve motor's problems start with trust bearing falling out letting crank shaft to walk in block causinh oil pressure to drop making timming to advance and retard making motor sound like a diesel and it moves chain back and forth breaking chain Gide and so on any way Chang thrust bearing r&r all in front cover and all be good well three times so far for me hope this helps somewhat if any
05-10-2017, 11:56 AM
#3088
From my understanding, the only way to replace the crank bearings would be to pull the engine. If I put in that much effort I wouldn't be putting original back in. Id likely opt for a reman'ed replacement.
I guess the best I can hope for is doing everything I can to ensure that the thrust bearings are in good enough shape to justify the timing components being replaced.
I'd just hate to go through this effort and cost to still have issues.
I guess the best I can hope for is doing everything I can to ensure that the thrust bearings are in good enough shape to justify the timing components being replaced.
I'd just hate to go through this effort and cost to still have issues.
05-10-2017, 12:56 PM
#3089
From my understanding, the only way to replace the crank bearings would be to pull the engine. If I put in that much effort I wouldn't be putting original back in. Id likely opt for a reman'ed replacement.
I guess the best I can hope for is doing everything I can to ensure that the thrust bearings are in good enough shape to justify the timing components being replaced.
I'd just hate to go through this effort and cost to still have issues.
I guess the best I can hope for is doing everything I can to ensure that the thrust bearings are in good enough shape to justify the timing components being replaced.
I'd just hate to go through this effort and cost to still have issues.
But realistically, it would still be cheaper then a reman if it came down to it if you were to actually pull motor and replace main bearings also was all I was saying.
You wont know anything until you drop pan anyways. Looking forward to hearing /seeing what you find.
Mike